I have been told that 54 239's take a different fuel pump than later 292 motors. My question is if I am using a 239 timing cover on a 292 which pump do i use? thanks

Also in truck section

 

anyone know? or know how i can check and see? can you look at both timing covers and see which pump you need? is it based of the timing cover? or another varable? thanks

 

I'm still thinking about this one. 239s mess up EVERY part of the whole Y block equation.

I don't have a 239 of either type lying around to verify...but I would hazard a guess that you should use a std. Y block/FE pump. I believe the mounting bolt pattern is the same from the "std." later flange to either 239....and I would further guess that the difference (if any) is in the pump details, like having a glass filter bowl or a vacuum section, something like that, as opposed to any physical change in the pump arm or flange.

I'm extrapolating a little from other past posts, & I know Carl, Tim, & probably Mike all have more 239 experience than I do. The last one I saw was a couple of years back.

I have to say, though, that I don't *** know *** this to be true. To be honest...being a darksider....my view of the 239 is that it's good for moving the vehicle from the trailer after I bought it, to the shop where it's gonna get yanked out & stripped for parts, then replaced by a real Y block. Or a 460...or a 393C stroker...or ANYTHING. Ok, I probably wouldn't pull a good-running 239 for a while, but it wouldn't stay in for a rebuild.

 

well i know the 239 pumps are different and that they mount upside down. I am curently usuing a 292/fe pump but I have went through I think 4-5 pumps in about 4-5 years. So almost 1 a year. I know that part of that may be do to the truck siting but one was on there for almost 3 years before i started having fuel pump trouble. I know that before dad parked the truck the fuel pump was the problem and it was a glass bowl pump, but i dont remember how it mounted. Then the truck sat about 7 years and I started with it. So I got the first pump as a gift but it has been almost the same as the ones i replaced it with. One was a carter brand the others master. I would like to think that maybe I have been using the wrong pump but I would think that there would be a problem with using one vs. the other. I just dont know except i am getting pretty fast at changeing fuel pumps. so anyone else know? And As for going to a electric pump i really dont want to. Thanks

 

I have a 239 long block out in the barn being stored for a fellow FTEr. It may have an unmounted fuel pump in a parts box. I'll take a look at it tomorrow.

 

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you've been using a 292 pump already. So, you're one step ahead of me already.

Next, you know that the 239's pump is different in what way??

Someone wrote a while back (may have been on a different Y forum) that the only reason the 239 pump was upside down was due to the size of the pump & that it would interfere with the suspension or something else- not because of the operation of the pump.

However... it might be possible that the pivot location on a 239-specific pump is slightly higher (or lower, if you held the pump like an ordinary pump), as compared to a later pump. Or, the arm may be slightly shorter. Or, the location of the cover opening in relation to the cam eccentric is slightly different, compared to a 272, etc. (Most likely of the three, if any, IMHO). What I'm driving at is that the pump diaphragm may be getting stretched more than it's designed to handle, & failing prematurely. It is a possibility- it would take a careful comparison of OE pumps & covers to say for sure. I don't want to over-think this, but the 239 is odd in many ways...Ford's OHV guinea pig.

A couple of other issues....if you are using any form of fuel stabilizer, it tends to eat the soft parts of the fuel system, including pump diaphragms. Also, gasohol will do the same thing. Lastly, pumps tend to fail when they are stored with the diaphragm loaded at full stroke.

I don't know that any of this applies to your particular case, but it's food for thought.

 

I have a NOS fuel pump made by AMPCO. I don't know when it was manufactured but it says on the label it fits Ford V8 1955-58, Mercury 1960 V8 and Ford truck V8 1955-59. It has the glass bowl at the bottom not the top. It matches the pump that was on my '55 F100 when I got it which had a 239.

I checked a Ford interchange manual and the same pump fits Ford trucks under 1 1/2 tons '55-64 239, 256, 272, 292 with 2 barrel carb. The part number is C3TZ9350B.

There is a separate listing for 1954 Ford trucks and cars part number B4A9350E for '54 Ford car 8 cylinder, and Ford truck '54 239 and 256, and Mercury '54.

Maybe you have a '54 239 timing cover?

Added info.

I just checked the Ford Truck Parts Illustration book and the upside down pump with the glass fuel bowl was for 1954 239 and 256 engines. There are 2 types with and without vacuum.

The pump I have matches the '55 and later fuel pump with the glass bowl on the bottom. It was also with or without vacuum.

This is just a guess but the '54 239 had the cam shaft with the larger journals and did not interchange with later Y blocks. I think it may be why the fuel pump would be slightly different for '54.

 

well I know the truck is a 54 and it had a 239 before the 292. Dad pulled the 239 to have it rebuilt and napa(the rebuilders) could not get a cam for it. So dad went and got a 292 out of a 57 or 58 F600. So they rebuilt it. (I think all but the timing cover is 292) Dad went to put it in with a new water pump(car style) and the fan would not clear. So he pulled the cover and either put his cover or another one back on that let him use his water pump. The water pump and timing cover are the 239 small water pump style. anyone know the casting number for the 54 only fuel pump timing cover? I will also try and ask my dad more. Oh I have used fuel stablizer once in 5 years and it is completley gone through the system, and as for when i stop the motor I dont know if the pump is full or getting ready to pump i just shut it off. The location of the pump in the cover could be different. I have a 239( on the truck) and a 292(off the truck) timing covers but i will not be home till november to see what if anything is different. I do know that aparenty the later style pump will bolt and maybe work on the 292 motor, but how well may be a different story and the cause of my problems.

I have looked on line at advance auto and the 54 pump is strait armed and may work of the top of the exc.???(just a guess) The 55 and later(like i have now) goes off the bottom and is bent or dog leged. Also in the picture the 54 is a solid multi layer arm. The 55 up is stamped.

Also on a side note I belive my truck is pretty early in the 54 model year. Like aug 2 of 53??? ( that is what i have been told off the tag>>>the production number 2HC14641) So if he used his timing cover it should be the 54 then maybe. Anyone else confused? hahaha

 

It sounds like the combination of the '54 timing cover and the 292 cam may be the reason the pumps don't last. You might be better off finding a '56 style fan shroud and converting back to a 292 timing cover and water pump.

 

I second that motion !

 

Well i dont have a fan shroud yet but i do have various 292 water pumps one of which is high mount(so i can use my current set up if need be) and I have i think 2 239 timing covers and 2 292 timing covers(one car, one truck) So I have been looking at that too. But right now a fuel pump change to which ever is supost to be right would be easyer than a timing cover swap. I know i am going to have to do something for a 239 water pump too but that is a whole nother subject. HAHAHA but yeah for now i would like to figure out the whole fuel pump.


I did just call my dad and he did not remeber geting his motor back from napa but he did get a timing cover and water pump somewhere that is 239. He said he was not shure how the fuel pump was mounted as he had a lot of trouble out of fuel pumps new and used(napa gave him the wrong one) and he got a used one off a 55 and another used one and then i think either a new or used one was the last one when he parked the truck. But he rembered the glass bowl being down on the last one. He also remembered geting stuff maybe a fan?? of a 56 F600 and the tranie and stuff either out of the 56 or 55. So there you go. clear as mud in the rain at the bottom of a dirt bank. So any more guesses? Anyone know the casting number for the 239 timing cover housings?

So I guess I am back to where I started any guesses on which pump??? haha anyone happen to have both pumps and can compare them?

Also on a side note when my pumps work the allmost fill up the clear inline filter. On my 66 truck with a 390 or 352(same pump) it is filled up about the same as well.

 

The casting number on the timing cover for a 1954-55 239 truck engine will start with EBV and for a car EBU then the group number and a letter suffix denoting the revision level. There were two different group numbers used depending on how early the part is, I think it is 6019 and 6059 but I will have to check when I get back to the parts manual. There is also a casting date code that is 4 digits starting with the last digit of the year then a letter for the month and then the day of the month. Example, 4B12 is 1954 Feb 12 or 1964 Feb 12. The casting number can be looked up for the year. Several casting letters were reused in different years for different size engines so the 292s are not so easy to figure out. Later the numbering system was changed so the first letter is the decade and the second digit is the year. In that version B is 50s C 60s D 70s etc. example C2TE 6059 B is 1962 Truck Engine 6059 group number 2nd revision.

I sent you an email with a file attached for the water pumps in the article you want to start. I have also started on the timing covers for part numbers. The 239's are the easy ones to figure out

 

I recived your artical it looks great as far as i have gotten in it. I will try and check or have someone check the casting number on my timing cover some time. Thanks Isaac

 

There wasnt a 239 pump in the parts box, so no help here .

 

Well,

It just so happens that I have a 239 sitting on the floor with the pump installed and a 292 pump sitting on the bench. I'll take a look tomorrow if I can find time and report back.

BTW, My plan is to eventually use an electric Bendix type pump on my 292.