it could have cracked further up, alowing it to suck air at the tank

 

well it sounds like the line finished itself off and you have half a tank usage now. now with that done have you done what i said in my previous post?

 

My best solution is remove the fuel filter, see how much fuel is in it.

If it is full, then I am going to say you have an injection pump problem which is kind of indicated by the not wanting to start after 5 minutes in a store.

If the filter is not full, then either the pick up tube is getting worse and you are out of fuel, the lift pump is dead not delivering fuel to the filter and injection pump or air infiltration is letting the fuel drain back to the tank.

If you remove the schrader valve on the fuel filter and install a fuel pressure gauge, you should see around 5 PSI pressure.
Next, leave the gauge hose on the schrader valve and remove the gauge.
Put the end of the hose in a container, crank the engine for 10 seconds.
You should have at least 1/3 pint of fuel in the container.

If either test is failed, a new lift pump is needed.

When you say it has been taking a little cranking to get it started, few people actually give the starter the cool down time between cranking attemps.
So it is very common for hard starting engines causing the starter to overheat.
Once that happens, the starter cranking speeds slow down.

Diesel auto ignition temp is real close to 500 degrees.
Even with outside temps at 100 degrees, that still leaves 400 degrees for the compression to raise the cylinder temp in one compression stroke before the engine will fire.
A slow cranking engine just does not make enough heat for the fuel to ignite.

I have seen diesel engines with good compression cause the ether to ignite before the piston reaces TDC.
If that happens, no the engine will not start on ether.
Just kills the batteries and really loads the starter up since the engine is trying to run backwards and the starter is trying to turn it forwards.

 

Dave, I guess sometimes it just takes someone like you to say it. Oh well i tried!
WB

 

Air infiltration is very hard for people to grasp.
Fluids seak the lowest level they can reach.
Since a vacuum holds the fuel at a higher level in the fuel system than it can reach if the vacuum is broken, with no fuel visable on the engine the lines can not be leaking.

What is worse, you can't tell where the air is leaking in since you can not see air and are not inside the fuel lines where it would be visable.

I always try to start with the cheapest fixes and tests, then work up to more expensive fixes if required.

30 dollars worth of return lines and O rings is a drop in the bucket when you start looking at injection pump prices.

100 dollars for new glow plugs, 450 for a new IP.
Think I will at least check the glow plugs and change the bad ones before I spring for a new IP.

A little resistance in the battery cables, batteries not carrying a full charge like they did when they were new, the IP is a little weak, the injectors are not popping exactly like they did when they were new, starter is slowing down a little, maybe a little air leaking in one of the return tees, the lift pump is a little weak, the compression is a little low, and two glow plugs are dead.

None of the things on that list alone will keep the engine from starting and running rather well.
Start adding two, three, four or more together and you have a very hard to start engine.

Then add we can't see, hear, smell or feel how it is acting, and what I would call one thing is not what the other person means.

Some people get frustrated, some people work through things with you and some just give up and call an expensive mechanic.

I think everyone here tries to help.

Me saying something....I am just another faceless keyboard giving my opinion.

I do have a face though, don't I look like someone you should trust?

 

my dad always said "trust the man in the joker hat or else!!!" LMAO!!! Yeah my brother i get what you are saying, it is just hard when the receiving party doesn't see what it all means.

 

for the most part i can see what it all means..

anyways. i got it home (towed it).
took the filter off..., it is full of fuel.

and i dont think any of the glow plugs are bad. i just replaces all of them.
injectors are about 4 years old, (when i replaced the plugs i did the injector seal kit and cleaned all the injectors.)

 

and i appreciate all ur guys help more than u can possibly imagine.

i love to do my own work, so when i do i want to makke sure im doin it rite, so i come to experts like u guys.

 

what is the difference between the fuel pump and the fuel injector pump?

 

the lift pump is on the side of the engine just like on a gas engine.
the injector pump is on top of the engine and has the individual lines going to each cylinder. after you get the batteries charged, have someone sit in the truck while you are outside near the engine. have the person inside the truck turn the key to run position. you should hear the injector pump click. this is the fuel shutoff switch. if it does not make any noise, that will get us started of a better diagnosis.

 

Here is a picture of the IP taken from the passenger side of the engine with the terminals labeled.



If you don't have a helper, unplug the fuel shut off (FSS) wire with the key in the on position.
When you touch the connector to and remove the connector, you should hear the FSS click.

The key should not be left on with the engine not running for a long time.
The FSS uses fuel flow to cool the solenoid keeping it from overheating.


As Tom said, the lift pimp delivers fuel to the fuel filter, then to the injection pump at around 5 PSI pressure.

The injection pump then raises the pressure to close to 2000 PSI and delivers it to the appropriate cylinder for injection at the correct time.

 

Based on what you have said you have replaced and my own experience. (I have had an almost exact problem you have now) the IP is probably shot. When I first bought the truck I escaped the the IP bad diagnosis because I found out that (don't ask me how) the PO had installed a powerstroke starter on the truck. And as I was explained by a powerstroke "genius" because he works on them for 6 different dealerships and thats all he works on, that the powerstroke starter spins the engine over slower than the IDI since its fuel pop off is controlled electronically by the solenoid on the injectors and the High pressure oil pump. I replaced with the right starter and truck was fine for about 4 months. Left the garage I worked for to go to lunch, no problems starting, got back in the truck after lunch an hour later to go back to work spun and spun and spun and spun(of course letting the starter sit a bit after each attempt I'm crazy, but not stupid) til it killed the batteries. Would start on ether but not on its own. Replaced the IP and now with one cycle of the glow plugs when cold or just hopping in and hitting the key without waiting on a warm day it will kick off on half a rotation. My FSS was fine but the internals were shot it had 185,000 miles on it so I saluted it when I shipped it back as a core for being a brave trooper making it that far. Don't know about where everybody else got theirs but I got a reman from a company that rebuilds them for light and heavy duty diesel engines for about $375 after core trade in.

 

do injector pumps usually go bad all at once??
or gradually get worse.... i.e my situation..



would anybody recommend gettin an IP from a junkyard??

 

im assuming this all means that this is how i tell if the FSS is bad... as opposed to the IP internal parts?

 

alrite...

fuel filter is full...
lines are good...
do not have fuel pressure gauge. so cant check that...
FSS is clicking on...
and when i crack the injector lines and crank the engine very little fuel comes out... if the IP were bad would it cause only a little to come out. or none at all??