Hi,
I'm new to early Ford trucks, I'm looking at buying a '49 F-3 dually. It doesn't have a bed on it. Was there a pickup bed available back then to fit the dually? Can I modify one to fit (I don't mind making fender pods in the bed for clearence or whatever is needed). What bed would fit? I would like to use a 48 to 52 bed (or maybe later) so it looks like it came with the truck, I'm not looking to drop a dually bed of a 1997 F-350! Also, the owner is telling me the rear end is something like a 7.30 ratio??? Is that possible? How short were the rear ends in the dually trucks. It has the straight six and four speed. I'm looking to do a drivetrain swap but was thinking about staying with the original rear end so the width is correct, as I would like to keep it a dually.

I'm planning on swapping in a 12v Cummins and Getrag 5 speed out of a early 90s dodge. Should be a fun project!

Thanks,
Jason

 

The F3 as far as I know was never offered in a dual rear wheel. Just single rear wheel on the F2 and F3. The bigger trucks F4 thru F6 is where you would find dual rear wheels. Does the VIN and title indicate that it truly is an F3? Maybe someone put a cab with the F3 logo onto a larger truck as all the cabs were the same. Or someone just swapped out the axle with a later model to fit their needs. The F2 and F3 from 48-52 had the same 8ft bed that is not reproduced. If you do find an 8ft bed you would have to modify the rear fenders to work with the dual rear wheel. A pic would help but you can't post one until you get at least 20 posts.

 

First, welcome to the group. Glad to have you, and glad somebody else is saving a big truck. I'll ditto what gearhead said, and add that a quick and easy way to check to see if you have an F-2 or F-3 is to measure wheelbase. F-2/3s are 122". F-4/5/6s are either 134" or 158". Also, the stock gear in an F-2 or F-3 is 4.86. If you've got something in the range of a 7.30 I doubt you've got an F-3.

If you really have an F-3, to do what you're describing you'll want to swap out the rear for a '67 to '71 F-250 or F-350 rear. Everybody that's done it says it's a bolt in swap. And IIRC, a '72 will mount easily too but there are some minor mods needed. And hopefully one of the others jumps in because I've read that '73 and later F-350 rears work too. I don't remember exactly which models but I think it's the flatbeds.

If you find out that you've got an F-4/5/6, swapping those rears is a different deal. Here's a recent thread that has good info on that.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...questions.html

As for the pickup bed, if you have an F-3 and find a good stock "Express" box, you should be able to make fender extensions like this IH has. These were a factory piece on IHs. Or obviously you could just weld in extensions.



If, however, you have an F-4/5/6 you'll be fabbing your whole box. Here's a pic of an F-5 I borrowed from our friend Bob Jones. This is a custom bed the guy made.



Then, because I love the look, here's a factory DRW Studebaker tonner.

 

Thanks guys for all the info! I was hoping I would find a forum like this! That stude is exactly what I'm wanting to do, something that looks factory... I cant really tell, is that blue truck in the pic a dually? That box is a piece of art for sure!

The F-3 thing is my mistake, the owner is telling me its a one ton. I was assuming it was an F-3, but I realize now after doing some reading that F-3 doesn't mean 1 ton. ( I was thinking in new truck numbering...) It looks like a short wheel base though, like a bed would fit on it. I have seen lots of pictures of other F-4 F-5 dually trucks and most I have seen have a long rear chassis for a huge flat bed.

How will I know if its a F-4, 5, or 6?

Thanks again for all the great info. After I have some posts, I'll try to get some pictures up!

Jason

 

The blue truck is a dually. You'll find the VIN on the glove box door plate, or on the firewall plate, or on the frame. On the frame it should be on the passenger side near the motor mount gusset. Stu

 

The easiest way to tell if it's a F-4 is to look at the frame. The F-4 has a single layer frame, while the F-5 & 6 has a double wall frame. If it has a dual wall frame it'll probably be very easy to see because most times there will be a good amount of rust in between the layers and it pushing the layer apart, at least that's how they all look in this part of the country.

 

Wow thanks for all the great info. I also checked out that link from above which was a good read. What does the double layered frame look like? Is it still a C channel shape but with two layers welded together, or something different?

One other question, is there a good place to deal with that I should request a catalog from that has resto parts? I already requested a catalog from Joblot, they look like they have alot of parts available.

Thanks,
Jason

 

First off, welcome to the board, nice to have another big truck person around.

If the previous owner told you its one a 1-ton, its likely an F-4, the F-2 is concidered a 3/4ton, and the F-3 a HD 3/4 ton.

I'll echo what is said about about the rear end. I think in the long run you'd be better off getting a rear out of a newer (relatively, 1972 or earlier... I have a 69' Dana 60 under my F-3). They are typically a bolt in, have better range of gear ratios and easier to find parts for.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask, there is a wealth of experience and knowledge here

 

The frame is basically two layers of frame. It starts about even with the front of the door and ends about above the rear axle. It might be a little shorter. If it's there you'll see it. In the St. Louis area the trucks might not get a rusty as they do up here. I've only had one that had a good frame and it came out of Colorado.

For resto parts, do you mean sheet metal or mechanical? Reproduced sheet metal parts are few. You won't find steel fenders or doors, although there are few places that sell them in fiberglass.

Most parts are interchangeable between the different models:

Body Part Interchange Guide

Northern Classic Trucks has the most sheet metal parts I have found, www.northernclassictrucks.com. Not much but some.

For mechanical parts Job Lot carries the most parts for the larger trucks. You can also find some at NAPA and good auto parts store, don't bother with the national places like Advanced Auto or Auto Zone, they'll just give you a blank stare and waste your time while they take ten minutes going through the windows of their computer and then tell you they can order it for you.

Looking for parts for the larger trucks can be a real challenge. It can turn into a scavenger hunt. I have found some parts by going to parts specific places. If you need a bearing go to a place that sells bearings, or if you're looking for a suspension part go to a place that sells suspension parts for large trucks. Many times they can match a part from their inventory. If they don't have it ask where they think you might be able to find the part. The counter guys are usually very helpful.

 

Jason,

I just reread one of your posts. I have a '48/51 with a 9' bed and it's not much longer than my F-2. They also came with a 12' bed:



Also, not to discourage you but you should know that if it is a larger F-4 or up truck there is a good chance it has the Widow Maker wheels:

Ford two piece rims

If the truck is one of the bigger trucks there aren't many interchangeable rear axles that will let you keep the stock five lug wheels. The only updated swap I've seen is on the light blue truck Stu posted. I've seen this truck tooling around Wisconsin for the last 10 years and have met the owner a few times at a local power show. He told me he swapped in an axle from a '70 IH truck, at one show there was a '70 one ton IH parked next to his truck and it had the five lug axle. He also told me the IH is actually internally the same as a later model Ford and he was able to swap in higher gears from a early to mid '70s Ford one ton truck.

I've known of a few trucks that the owners swapped in a newer 8 lug rear axle but then you will have to carry two different spare tires. Swapping out the front axle is extremely hard because the newer trucks have wider axles, it's not too noticeable with the rear axle but a newer axle will extend the front wheels outside the front fenders. Also, newer axles have a different steering mechanism. The '48-52s steer from outside the frame while the newer trucks steer from the inside with a different set up.

 

Wow, thanks for all the info. You guys obviously have a great knowledge base here! Bobj, thanks for all the links! I bookmarked the parts places, and read throught he two piece wheel article. So to summarize, if it has the two piece wheels, I need to find something different before I drive it, as they are unsafe? After all the info I have been given here, and what i have read, I'm pretty sure its a F-4 short wheel base. I had also read about the front end issue of width, and for that reason wanted to stay with the stock rear or something that would be the same lug pattern so everything matches.

What would you say would be the best, or easiest to find option for wheels? Has anyone tried to weld the two wheel halves together by running a bead around the inside of the wheel? The problem is that they come apart because of the poor interlocking design correct?

As for parts, I was somewhat interested in body stuff, but mostly mechanical, and restoration parts like rubber stuff, weather striping and chrome stuff. I'm not looking to do a full on restoration, I just want to get it going and drive it. I've done enough resto's, I just want truck I can drive without worrying about every little rock chip!

Jason

 

Are the ford rear ends from the 60s and early 70s also the same 5 lug pattern? Why is it they swap to the F-2/F-3 but not a F-4 or larger? What is the big difference that makes them a problem to install?

Thanks for all the info!

Jason

 

It's easier to swap in newer rear axles in the F-2/F-3s because Ford kept the same 8 bolt pattern up to the late '90, although the width of the rear axle grew wider after '72. On the larger trucks I think Ford got away from the 5 bolt pattern in the bigger trucks in the early-late '50 and went to a 6 bolt pattern and then to a 8 bolt pattern. I don't know the exact dates of the change over because I don't keep track of information for truck newer than '52. I get into enough trouble with the Bonus Built years, 1948-52.

You can't weld the WMs together for numerous reason. First, you wouldn't be able to get a tire over the outer lip, that's reason 20" wheels of all design are multi-part. Tubeless rims have a lower outside lip. If you would weld them you'd have to already have the tire and tube installed which would cause trouble when welding. I also don't think you could balance them because you'd have a hard time making sure the rim was spread apart equally.

There are new 22.5" wheels available but they aren't cheap. American Wheel Specialists imports them from Turkey, or other country. There have been a couple of people on the board who have bought from them. Stu also has stopped by AWS in person and had a lengthy discussion with the owner:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ew-22-5-a.html

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...available.html

 

One small correction to Bob's post. The wheels that American Wheel Specialist imports from Turkey are 19.5s rather than 22.5s. These wheels have a somewhat wider face than do our stock wheels. We figure that the motor homes they are intended for likely use disc brakes and thus need the extra caliper space. Otherwise they fit great and ensure safe operation. And I suspect are one of the more cost effective ways to get good wheels short of finding used ones.

As for whether you have widow makers, I think it's best to assume you do until you can confirm otherwise. Here are two pics of a widow maker, and the third pic is of a lock ring. If you see the raised band on the concave inner rim you've found the widow maker joint. If you have lock rings they are good to use, but should also be handled with great care by professionals.

 

You got me on that one Stu, thanks for catching it.