Cistern Pump
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,214
Likes: 13
From: New Jersey
Cistern Pump
For your entertainment. This actually a continuation of this thread here on Garage and Workshop:
Drains, gutters and cisterns
And now for the update. The stupid, puny, overpriced, inefficient, easy to burn out garden hose pumps do not work long term. They overheat, die, and are miserable to replace as each year I have to replace it the pumps are of lessor quality than the year before. I gave up.
Now, I'm using a pool pump, at least once I figure out where to acquire a really cheap 1-1/2" diameter exhaust hose for it to drape across the lawn to the street. Shouldn't be that difficult, though my local harbor freight store struggled to find one in stock for about 45 minutes before I left as my son was having a meltdown with the boredom while waiting. Maybe I'll hit the store tomorrow alone and see if they can find it.
Anyway, here's the URL
Cistern Pump
Drains, gutters and cisterns
And now for the update. The stupid, puny, overpriced, inefficient, easy to burn out garden hose pumps do not work long term. They overheat, die, and are miserable to replace as each year I have to replace it the pumps are of lessor quality than the year before. I gave up.
Now, I'm using a pool pump, at least once I figure out where to acquire a really cheap 1-1/2" diameter exhaust hose for it to drape across the lawn to the street. Shouldn't be that difficult, though my local harbor freight store struggled to find one in stock for about 45 minutes before I left as my son was having a meltdown with the boredom while waiting. Maybe I'll hit the store tomorrow alone and see if they can find it.
Anyway, here's the URL
Cistern Pump
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,476
Likes: 224
From: Frequently frozen MN
Too bad you don't have a bigger opening or you could drop in a submersible sump pump.
As for the hose, look for plastic drain hose. 1-1/2 and 1-1/4 are common sizes. Usually big hardware places -- probably Home depot or Menards will have it, and it's dirt cheap. I buy mine at a place called Fleet Farm, but I think that they're pretty local.
A submersible would be really nice because you could put a switch on it, and it would pump out whenever it got over a certain level. You would want to put a check valve in line to keep the water from draining back.
As for the hose, look for plastic drain hose. 1-1/2 and 1-1/4 are common sizes. Usually big hardware places -- probably Home depot or Menards will have it, and it's dirt cheap. I buy mine at a place called Fleet Farm, but I think that they're pretty local.
A submersible would be really nice because you could put a switch on it, and it would pump out whenever it got over a certain level. You would want to put a check valve in line to keep the water from draining back.
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2006
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Fred, Go to a pool supply store and get whats called a discharge hose (sometimes called a backwash hose as well). (Home Depot and Lowes might sell similar stuff where the sump pumps are) The hose is usually rolled up flat, all you will need is a hose clamp to attach to the pvc pipe. They are cheap, and like I said before, can be rolled up real nice and compact.
Here is a link for one I found online Standard 1-1/2" Backwash Hose - 50 ft. roll - Maintanence Equipment - Pool Supplies
Here is a link for one I found online Standard 1-1/2" Backwash Hose - 50 ft. roll - Maintanence Equipment - Pool Supplies
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,214
Likes: 13
From: New Jersey
Great solutions for the hose, thank you. Cheap and it rolls up! Me like.
The sad thing about the submersible pump - I actually had the opening much larger at one point when my cousin chipped through it with the pick axe (which the head is still in the cistern
) and I didn't think about the pump issue until after I cemented it closed with the 4" drain pipe sticking out of it. I am really kicking myself in the **** for that bonehead move, but alas digging it all up and breaking through the concrete, and cutting up the PVC at the end since it's already installed... well... didn't seem like fun.
If there comes a time where I have to pull this apart again, I will put on a wider neck and drop a submersible down there.
The sad thing about the submersible pump - I actually had the opening much larger at one point when my cousin chipped through it with the pick axe (which the head is still in the cistern
) and I didn't think about the pump issue until after I cemented it closed with the 4" drain pipe sticking out of it. I am really kicking myself in the **** for that bonehead move, but alas digging it all up and breaking through the concrete, and cutting up the PVC at the end since it's already installed... well... didn't seem like fun.If there comes a time where I have to pull this apart again, I will put on a wider neck and drop a submersible down there.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,214
Likes: 13
From: New Jersey
Got a 75' backwash hose as you both had suggested, and it works very well. When I first turned on the pump the end flapped around all over the place soaking me but once there was steady pressure it remained in place flowing water into the street.
The 1.5" diameter pump drained the cistern faster than I expected - 1 hour, 15 minutes. Not quite to the bottom as the pump seems to lose suction when the level gets very low but it's enough that I can survive two days of heavy rain without the water backing up into the house. Priming it was as easy as pouring in a bucket of water. No more vegetable oil, spoons, cussing and fussing.
The 1.5" diameter pump drained the cistern faster than I expected - 1 hour, 15 minutes. Not quite to the bottom as the pump seems to lose suction when the level gets very low but it's enough that I can survive two days of heavy rain without the water backing up into the house. Priming it was as easy as pouring in a bucket of water. No more vegetable oil, spoons, cussing and fussing.
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2006
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Glad to hear that it worked out for you. Pool pumps tend to loose suction if it gets air in thru the pump. They werent really designed to do what you are using it for but it will do what you want, just dont run it to long without any water going thru it. That will lead to it burning up.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
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Likes: 13
From: New Jersey
If the cistern is full, or at least reasonably fully, it's easily primed and has enough suction to get started. It's almost impossible to re-prime if the water level is to low, probably because this pump is an above ground pump and expecting to have the water level close to it's own physical height. An inground pump would probably be a better choice but it was free so that overcomes any "defects" in it's anatomy ;-)
When it lost suction I could hear the difference immediately and shut it off to protect the seals and impeller. I was working in the driveway anyway "just in case" something happened with the pump I could re-prime it.
I've been thinking about various ways to install a flow sensor so when the flow stops, the pump could be shut off automatically, with a manual override for priming. Another day!
When it lost suction I could hear the difference immediately and shut it off to protect the seals and impeller. I was working in the driveway anyway "just in case" something happened with the pump I could re-prime it.
I've been thinking about various ways to install a flow sensor so when the flow stops, the pump could be shut off automatically, with a manual override for priming. Another day!
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,214
Likes: 13
From: New Jersey
I imagine I could, though I'd have to figure out the pressure on the exhaust side. My initial thinking would be there is little pressure since the hose is open on the other end? What do you think?
Maybe a simple "wet" sensor would be enough... two metal tabs separated by air unless there is water flowing around/between which would significantly lower the resistance - drive a low-voltage, low current transistor to actuate a relay. When wet, pump, when ot wet, shut off. Manual override switch to pump?
Maybe a simple "wet" sensor would be enough... two metal tabs separated by air unless there is water flowing around/between which would significantly lower the resistance - drive a low-voltage, low current transistor to actuate a relay. When wet, pump, when ot wet, shut off. Manual override switch to pump?
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,144
Likes: 11
From: Rochdale MA
You can install one of these in a bypass loop Gems Sensors FS-380P 2.0 GPM Liquid Flow Switch
I have used one like it on a different application. We had to shut down a pump on a 4" suction line in case of loss of water. I installed a valve to cut the flow down to the 2 GPM that the switch needed.
I have used one like it on a different application. We had to shut down a pump on a 4" suction line in case of loss of water. I installed a valve to cut the flow down to the 2 GPM that the switch needed.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,144
Likes: 11
From: Rochdale MA
Just another thought if you have a 4" pipe then you can install one of these Level Switch Devices - Pressure Switch Instruments - Gems Sensors
You would need a contactor to kick the pump on though. The float switch would energize the coil on the contactor
You would need a contactor to kick the pump on though. The float switch would energize the coil on the contactor
