Just came from the towing chart on this site and it is the same as the owners manual. Both say that the maximum fifth wheel capacity (GCWR) for a super duty with 7.3 and 373 is 20,000 lbs. It says the same limit for F350 and F250 or F350 with 410 diffs or even DRW. My truck is a 4x4 short bed and I pull a 5er that has a GVWR of 14300. On the scale fully loaded I weigh 19,600 lbs, just under the max GCWR. Problem is I want to buy a slightly heavier fifth wheel but according to the owners manual and the chart on this web sight I will exceed the GCWR. How can that be when I see all sorts of fifth wheels that I know weigh 16 to 18 thousand pounds being pulled with f250/350s? I am comfortable with the pair I have and I can't imagine that another 1000 lbs would make much difference but in the event of an accident I would like to be under the GCWR. The chart seems to be extra restrictive. In fact the diesel owners manual sets the GCWR at 20000 lbs minus the GVW of the tow vehicle. Following that logic I could tow more with my F250 short bed than someone with a 350 crew cab DRW. That dog just won't hunt. Can anyone enlighten me please?

 

You didn't specify the year of your truck, but you can pick your own here:
http://www.fleet.ford.com/products/rv_trailer_towing/2003/2003_default.asp

 

It's really easy to understand. Anyone that is towing more than you is overloaded.

 

>In fact the diesel owners manual sets the GCWR at 20000 lbs minus the GVW of the tow vehicle. Following that logic I could tow more with my F250 short bed than someone with a 350 crew cab DRW. That dog just won't hunt. Can anyone enlighten me please?

The GCWR is just that, the combined loaded weight of truck and trailer. It's not 'minus' anything. It means everything. Fuel, passengers, etc...

With the same engine/axle combo, a lighter truck like a shorty MAY be able to tow a heavier trailer than a heavy dually and still be under the maximum GCWR.

I say MAY, because while it still may be within the GCWR, the pin load could be pushing the truck over it's GVWR. Not to cause you stress or worry, but you may already be exceeding the GVWR of your F250 even though you are still under the GCWR.

So whatever you tow, you are limited by both GVWR and GCWR, whichever one limits out first.

 

Man, I just typed a long reply and lost it somehow. Oh well. Thanks guys (i guess it's guys) for the help. The Ford Fleet site was great and I bookmarked it. However, I'm still where I was. I do understand the weight ratings (including axle weights) and restrictions. They just don't seem to make sense. It is not logical that an F350 DRW truck that was otherwise the same as mine would have the same GCWR, meaning it could tow less because the tow vehicle is heavier than mine. Perhaps whoever said that everyone with a trailer heavier than mine is over loaded is right. Anyway, let me re-phrase my question. Could anyone who has experience pulling a 15K lb 5th wheel with a truck similar to mine 01/extended cab/4x4/7.3 TD/3.73 rear/AT with temp guage and large pan and sliding hitch, please share your experiences with me? Or could anyone explain the logic used to determine the GCWRs or tell me how concerned I should be about exceedint them by 5 to 10% ? Thanks a lot and merry Christmas or Happy Hollidays.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 24-Dec-02 AT 11:05 PM (EST)]My truck was originally built on a 1/2-ton chassis. I've swapped to F-250 springs all around, but that's only to hold up the weight of my regular cargo and the bumpers - it doesn't affect my GVWR. The primary concern in setting the GVWR is the BRAKES. The logic being that if you can't stop it, you shouldn't be pulling it. Another factor is the rear suspension's capacity. The GCWR assumes that the trailer's suspension carries all of its weight except a maximum of 750#, and that heavy trailers have their own brakes. Considering all this, the cost of manufacturing brake systems, & the market demand for TRULY heavy-duty light trucks, it's obvious why an F-350's brakes are no stronger than an F-250's (or actually why an F-250's are no weaker than an F-350's) - it's so much easier to use the same rear axle in both.

I regularly tow 4000# and have towed as much as 12000# for a few hundred miles. Even more for very short distances. As long as you know what you're doing and how the extra weight affects handling, braking, & wear on truck parts, you can do what you want.

 

Yeah, like the other guy said, most likely the other rigs towing a bigger trailer are probably overloaded.

Just because you saw a rig rolling down the road towing something doesn't mean that person is within spec or obeying the law. I have been told by more than one used truck salesman that I could tow a nice 30 foot travel trailer with one of his Ford Rangers with a six. Yeah sure, it would roll and might even tow OK, but you eventually will wear the truck out before it's time or the brakes and drive train will fail just when you needed it most.

Follow the manufacturers ratings and be conservative about trailer weights. Water and supplies add weight fast. You are probably OK with an occasional overload, but you probably will be breaking the law in many states and like I said before, wearing out your truck.

Good Luck. If you need to tow really heavy stuff, try a 450, 550 etc or one of those mini semis.

Jim Henderson

 

I am looking at a 5th wheel that has the following.

UVW of 8,800
GVRW of 11,760
Hitch Weight of 1,360

I have the 02 F250 SD 7.3 Turbo Crew Cab shorty 4X2.

I estimate my wet weight of truck with passengers and cargo to be at #7,290 pounds. This leaves #1510 for Pin weight.

I assume the Pin weight stated in the book is UVW, not GVRW. If so I calculate the Pin weight to be 15% of the UVW. With that said if the trailer is at GVRW of 11,760, that puts my pin weight at #1,764. I will be over the GVRW of the Truck, but still under the GCVRW of #20,000.

I know it is not legal, but can the truck handle being over by #300s.

 

What you are saying about the f250 and f350 makes logical sense, sure the 350 should be able to tow more. This is what I think, but I dont' have a lot of experience with this and if I really had more time could probably make better sense of it.

A HDF250, is different from an F350 by its axle weights. Both can come with the 5.4/v10/PSD (for new or 5.8, 460, diesel older). I haven't seen any 250's with overload springs, which 350's have. Its likely that the axles are the same(10.25 or Dana 60/70?? i don't really know), the frame the same, the drivetrain/transmission/cooling the same. But the F350 can hold more in its bed, or on the truck itself. It doesn't mean that its really capable of getting a trailer moving or stopping it any better. I think thats why for the longest time, 1 ton trucks only came with duals, because fundamentally what else is different? And sure, an f250 with a 5.4 2wd srw sb/regcb would have the smallest GVWR, and therefore more leftover for the trailer GVW, but doesn't mean it would town the best.

NOW, an f350 with DRW's will tow a big trailer BETTER because the rear end will be more stable, and it can handle the tongue/pin weight better. But if both have the same engine choices, and trans choices and fairly similar frames, the only other thing that could be different are the brakes??? Which I don't know for sure how they compare.

I guess the figure if you want to tow more than 20k GCVWR you have to step up to a medium duty truck like the 450 or 550, which still look like light duty's but have the larger wheels (19.5's or 22.5's??) and therefore larger can fit larger brakes. I assume thats what the 250/350 problem is, brakes?

Any of these assumptions make sense?

 

>What you are saying about the f250 and f350 makes logical
>sense, sure the 350 should be able to tow more. This is what
>I think, but I dont' have a lot of experience with this and
>if I really had more time could probably make better sense
>of it.
>
>A HDF250, is different from an F350 by its axle weights.
>Both can come with the 5.4/v10/PSD (for new or 5.8, 460,
>diesel older). I haven't seen any 250's with overload
>springs, which 350's have. Its likely that the axles are the
>same(10.25 or Dana 60/70?? i don't really know), the frame
>the same, the drivetrain/transmission/cooling the same. But
>the F350 can hold more in its bed, or on the truck itself.
>It doesn't mean that its really capable of getting a trailer
>moving or stopping it any better. I think thats why for the
>longest time, 1 ton trucks only came with duals, because
>fundamentally what else is different? And sure, an f250 with
>a 5.4 2wd srw sb/regcb would have the smallest GVWR, and
>therefore more leftover for the trailer GVW, but doesn't
>mean it would town the best.
>
>NOW, an f350 with DRW's will tow a big trailer BETTER
>because the rear end will be more stable, and it can handle
>the tongue/pin weight better. But if both have the same
>engine choices, and trans choices and fairly similar frames,
>the only other thing that could be different are the
>brakes??? Which I don't know for sure how they compare.
>
>I guess the figure if you want to tow more than 20k GCVWR
>you have to step up to a medium duty truck like the 450 or
>550, which still look like light duty's but have the larger
>wheels (19.5's or 22.5's??) and therefore larger can fit
>larger brakes. I assume thats what the 250/350 problem is,
>brakes?
>
>Any of these assumptions make sense?

I follow what you're saying. I've been looking at the specs too and frankly, I think Ford is just being conservative. Check the specs on a Dodge one ton dually with the HOCummins and the GCVR with 4.10 gears is 23000. Lower (taller) axle ratios carry lower GCVR. We all know that the PSD will out haul, out tow, out run the Cummins. At the risk of raising the ire of Waxy, Ford is just plain being too conservative with the GCWR. Most of the haulers will tell you that the F350 drw is more stabil and better suited for hauling that heavy fifth wheel. But if you go strictly by Ford Specs.........you must go with the F250 to be legal.
Horse cucky!!!!

Bob

 

I picked a coworkers brain, and he said the only reason for the duals is to help with stability while towing, not neccesarily for load carrying. I guess SRW can carry enough on a 350, but the DRW are really for towing. But at any rate, the 350 should be bigger and better. The ratings just don't add up.

 

>
>I know it is not legal, but can the truck handle being over
>by #300s.
>

Mine is over by 300 pounds when the water tank is full. That doesn't include all my other crap. I need to load it all up and go way it. I have hauled it several times with no problems. I ampretty new to this fiver haulin stuff This is my first one

Justin
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/displaythumbnail.php?&photoid=9313&.jpg
http://members.lycos.nl/dukesofhazzard/dukeslogo.JPG

2002 F-350 SC LB 4X4 6SPD PSD. 3.73 gears. 2.5" leviling kit. K&N air filter. Rhino lined Bed. Prodigy trailer brake controler. 35x12.5x16.5 BFG A/T. 16.5x10 ultra wheels. pop up gooseneck hitch and firestone airbag spring helpers. Reese fifth wheel hitch for my new toy hauler. Superchips microtuner.

As of 1/05/03 Single and looking Any single females around?? (hey I gotta do what I gotta do)

 

>I picked a coworkers brain, and he said the only reason for
>the duals is to help with stability while towing, not
>neccesarily for load carrying. I guess SRW can carry enough
>on a 350, but the DRW are really for towing. But at any
>rate, the 350 should be bigger and better. The ratings just
>don't add up.

Your coworker is only partially right. The duals do give greater stability, but the axle on a dually is not the same as a single rear wheel F350. The load carrying capacity is much greater than a single rear wheel.