Excellent point! Clearly I would much rather go the "uppipe mod, EGR delete, and tuner" mod also - just can't afford it now. So, in the meantime, I will pull my EGR valve again at 50k and see how much help I got from the fuel additives, ccv reroute, new flashes w/ new idle strategy, etc. If it is very dirty, I will probably go get the bandaid.

 

The egr induction cleaning service cleans out all passages in the intake manifold, egr passages in the intake and the egr cooler itself. The carbon build up is caused by the normal combustion cycle in all the cylinders and builds up on top the pistons and massively inside the intake manifold due to the overlap of the intake/exhaust valves reguardless of egr function. Eliminating the egr function is the main thing tuners do to enable more boost (ford pcm strategy uses the egr to control boost at various loads and throttle position) but eliminating egr function will not stop egr cooler failures (very commonly seen) as coolant flows from the oil cooler assembly and then straight to the egr cooler, the egr coolers crack internally and the engine then is ingesting coolant into the cylinders through the intake manifold, lots of white smoke and will cause head gasket issues as too much is now being compressed in cylinders with coolant and fuel/air, carbon build up among other issues will cause egr cooler failure. Eliminating egr function will not stop cooler failures. If the carbon build up is not controlled by cleaning services the egr cooler will eventually fail and the build up in the intake will cause driveability issues such as rough idle and poor performance/lack of power. Also the carbon build up will continue even faster if any performance tunes are installed as all these really do is add more fuel (lots more carbon alot faster) and eventually with any power tune you "will" need head gaskets, when this happens take a look, when the engine is disassembled and the heads are removed, at the amount of carbon build up on the pistons, all you see is thick black carbon, this will also lead to driveabilty issues if the carbon in the cylinders is not removed, either while disassembled or with a cleaning service, diesel just like a gas engine does not like excessive carbon build up anywhere, especially in the cylinders (pre-ignition issues, you know, before top dead center, not good). The egr cleaning service along with fuel injector/cylinder chamber cleaning service "will" help performance and extend the life of all components on the 6.0l. P.s.= all power tuners will cause head gasket failure before too long as this engine was tested by international (10,000,000 miles of testing) with thier own software running this engine, producing only 250 hp and 400 ft/lbs torque, ford juiced it up with thier own software to produce 325 hp and 570 ft/lbs torque to stay competitive in the market, tuning again with aftermarket software only increases further beyond what engine was designed to do, bottom end can handle it but all other systems on the engine cannot, especially the head gaskets, too much combustion pressure!!!. Carbon is our enemy!!!!!!!!!!lolol, trust me you don't want to pay for any of the above out of warrany. 6.4l has 2 egr coolers doubling the effective volume that would normally flow through 1 cooler and now flows through 2, cuts down on the stress induced to using only 1 cooler, too much volume for 1 cooler, but we don't even want to go into the issues with 6.4, you might get lost.....lololol. (ford certified diesel specialist, joe)

 

On the warranty side of things ford is pushing very hard to reduce the amount of $$ paying for 6.0l repairs, they are now wanting customers to perform various maintenance procedures to help reduce the amount of failures. As of right now if anything fails that is related to the fuel system (injectors, fuel pump, high pressure oil pump, icp sensor, etc.) the customer must, at the very least, Be able to produce info. Showing fuel filters have been replaced every 15k. Miles, or every 7,500mi. If running any amount of bio fuel, if no info. Can be produced the customer will loose all fuel system warranty forever, really pushing this on the 6.4l, not too bad yet on the 6.0l. Ford has been working with wynns corp. To create the egr cleaning service, and already has an injector/combustion chamber cleaning service available. These services will likely be approved by ford very soon as recommended routine maintenance to be able to maintain your factory 5yr 100k mile warranty. So far ford seems not to care about aftermarket add-ons such as exhaust, tuners, etc. And will still cover items under warranty even though vehicle has mods. Fyi ford had 5 million budget to cover 6.0l issues alone in 2008, they topped 3 billion in 2008 for 6.0l repairs, good enough reason to come up with ideas to not cover warranty items if customer does not perform any routine maintenance to help things stay operating properly, as warranty is for factory defect coverage and not abuse/neglect. You will see all these changes across the country, maintenance is the key, or atleast if you want to keep your warranty as far as ford is concerned.

 

From the description of the process in the OP it was never mentioned so I have to ask. HOW does the cleaning solution overcome the exhaust flow that is coming from the EGR cooler? Since the EGR valve is removed and the engine is running, I don't think any cleaner is going to get to the EGR cooler with the exhaust flow on a running motor. It's not pressurized so how are you going to force cleaner "upstream" when the motor is running?

The carbon build up inside the intake manifold can mostly be contributed by the EGR system, second place would probally be the CCV. After that carbon only comes in with the fuel. So the key there is the quality of the fuel. If we can get the fuel chemistry right then maybe the carbon can be reduced. SO with the true sources of carbon introduction into the motor being the fuel and the EGR it stands to reason to use a fuel additive and delete the EGR system (or at least keep the exhaust out of the intake system).

 

You said that Ford does not care if people put tuners on their trucks. Why are some people on this site being denied warranty repair because of them using aftermarket performance products?

 

Since I'm not going to add a tuner, the EGR will remain in service. And, I'd much rather do preventive maintenance on the truck, than wait til something breaks. Just because the truck is under warranty, doesn't mean I'm going to just ignore maintenance that can help mileage performance.

Joe, thanks for chiming in. He is the tech that did the service!

 

I understand your point and being given the opportunity to take part it the test was an eye opener for sure. Since it is a potential recommendation, they would need to develop an interval schedule, any ideas for the interval? They can't hinge your warranty on a "recommendation". That's why the emissions system is covered seperately in the orginial warranty statements. At best this service would be left to the dealership to use as required versus R&I the EGR valve or EGR coolers.

 

I think Joe said maybe every 15,000 miles, but I could be wrong.

 

Holy cow...(potentially)$1200 just to cover the motor to 100k.

 

yeah, that was my reaction to that also. I had this done with 30,000 on mine. I would think that would be a little more reasonable.

 

Yea, 30K sounds more realistic. To pass on the cost to the consumer at $200 would make those service costs soar for those who use the dealer for every service interval.

 

And I try to do that. So, yeah, I think 30K would be a lot better!

 

Good Morning!! Just a quick note on this service--It is all still in the testing and R & D phase, Ford is just trying to come up with a preventative maintenance that will help reduce common failures on the 6.0L. As most of these failures are not factory defects and can be prevented by routine cleaning services. Ford will likely review the average mileage where egr valves and/or egr coolers were replaced. They will then divide that mileage in half to establish the mileage at which these services are to be performed, could be anywhere between 20k and 40k. All in all, Ford is just trying to come up with a way to keep your/our vehicles operating properly without repeat failures to keep all of us happy with Ford vehicles and for them(Ford) to save $$$$$$ on warranty repairs. Lets face it, when we buy a new vehicle, we would all rather drive that vehicle and take care of it and never have to go to a dealership for repeat failures. If this service is ever approved by Ford, Ford will supply all dealerships with the egr service tool and those dealerships will only have to stock the cleaning solvents and will have to educate their customers on the recommended mileage for the services, and that is only if this ever happens!! TEST MODE for now.

For those who are being denied warranty claims with mods- That is most likely the dealership in particular, as prior approval for repairs(if not a level 1 dealer) all happens online and is submitted to Ford. I have done this many times last year(as now we are a level 1 dealer and no longer need prior approval) and stated to Ford numerous mods from full exhaust to stacked tuners and all warranty repairs were approved immediately from egr coolers and oil coolers to head gaskets. Never once has Ford (on their end) denied a claim due to aftermarket mods. As it is too hard to prove in court that those mods caused the problems, words straight from Ford tech hotline engineer. If your claims are denied, it is likely your dealership, so they can make more $$$ with customer pay. (Time paid to tech increases also) As Pat has noticed, we(at Performance Ford) are here to help repair your vehicle and keep it running properly with little or no expense(warranty) and to keep you happy with your diesel, after all, if you are not happy, we are not happy(dealership).