Info on the truck:
Has had synthetic only since the factory fill.
Hasnt towed yet.
Truck runs phenominal, gets MPG others dream of.
Truck uses oil, not sure exactly how much but I believe more than 1L/5000miles.
Doesnt see any real idle time.
Truck is always given warm up and cool down time when required.
Truck is very rarely run hard.
Truck sees extreme temperature in the winter but not on this change.
This oil change saw some hills but I disagree with blackstones assement as there is not Al, bearing or ring material comming up. I think it is valvetrain or something else?

Nickel and Manganese keep comming up as well, what components use steel that would have manganese or nickel?

Anybody have any idea what it might be.
Thanks

 

Cold starts with 15w40 is pretty hard on things. You should be on 5w40 syn or 10w30 for winter unless you are pulling heavy and lots. I dont know this helps, can they do a clean sample of your oil and do a test at 2500 Km and see what that reveals? I wonder how often they test Petro Can oils also. Perhaps try a different oil in the 5w40 synthetic?

 

Thanks for the response mhoefer,
Blackstone made an error on the paperwork, this was a Petro-Can Duron-E 10W40 synthetic meeting CJ4 specs. The other 2 oil intervals had ESSO XD3 0W40 in it so it is not from inferior oils.

Also this last oil change didnt have really cold starts on it, the cold hit after the sample was taken.

 

bump, anybody?

 

This is all I found on past searches I have done and saved.


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<TABLE style="WIDTH: 625pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=833 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 136pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 6619" width=181><COL style="WIDTH: 489pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 23844" width=652><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 136pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=181 height=17>Manganese</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 489pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=652>TRACE ELEMENTS IN LINERS AND RINGS, ADDITIVE IN GASLOLINE.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

If it were the rings, I would have thought Iron would be up also.

Edit:
I just opened your attachment. I do not see any increased Mn or Ni ??? What are the levels of these metals? (and the iron is up assuming that the UOA link is to the correct one).

 

Look at your silicon level! I think you should check to see if dirt is going into intake!! Be my guess sir

 

Good point! I wasn't sure this was the correct UOA, so I just looked at the Iron, Mn, and Ni.

Some other observations -
1. at one time you had a little fuel dilution going on.
2. When your viscosity is around 10, you are in the low range for a 30 weight oil. A 20 weight goes up to 9.3 cSt or so.

What oil have you been using? Did you have any injector work done recently (since the fuel dilution went down and the flash point went up in the most recent UOA in the link)? Do you have an aftermarket intake?

 

Thanks for commenting guys, bismic the oil analysis should be autoloading as a picture file, if its not coming up properly check in my gallery (there are 3 in there).

Silicon is at 15 and the universal average is 13, but remember guys this is a new engine and has been trending down as the sealants are washing out. While Nickel and Manganese are only at 1, it should be zero and has been holding at 1. Iron should be trending down as Silicon is but is holding in the 50 range. My personal belief is it could be a steel part alloyed with Ni and Mn.

To answer your questions, no injector work, last report said the rings had seated explaining the drop in fuel. First 2 analysis was done with an ESSO oil that is PAO so it is a good oil and the last one was done with a Petro-Canada CJ4 synthetic, also a good oil. Truck does have an aftermarket air filter but Silicon has dropped to just above the universal average suggesting its just break in wash out of sealants.

 

I understand better now - you are mainly concerned about the oil consumption and the Iron (since it is not trending down); AND the Mn and Ni may be clues to the specific components. Sorry to be slow - I was confused by the statement that "Ni and Mn kept coming up". By that you meant that they haven't dropped to zero.

I am assuming your MI/HR on oil and on truck are in miles (or is it km?). If it is km, then your break-in analytical trends look similar to mine except for the continued high Iron. If it is miles, then the Si and Cu were quite a bit slower to come down than mine, but I guess all vehicles are different. I suppose I would not be too concerned with the 1 ppm levels of Mn and Ni. Mine have been at zero, but with yours at only 1 ppm levels, I do not think you can read in too much. Still - I did post earlier on what I know to contain Ni and Mn.

Just curious - What oil did you use during the first 15k miles? Your Petro-Canada CJ4 oil looks like it is performing better (by the viscosity number) than the previous oil. Just a guess, but I would bet the next UOA would come back better - now that your oil appears to be shearing less than the first oil. Are you planning on changing oil at 5000 next time? Have you posted your results and questions on any of the oil sites (BITOG or Noria)? If not, they can give you the professional answers (I will readily admit I am just trying to learn since my lead numbers came up). I posted my concern about my 8 ppm lead while using Schaeffer oil on Noria and BITOG, and they said basically that the 8 ppm is still very low and don't worry (I still switched oils though).

Mhoefer's suggestion of a 2500 (km or mile) sample is a good one. This is one reason I LOVE my Fumoto valve.
Keep us informed.

 

Bismic,
Mileage is in km so 8000km = 5000 miles. First 2 analysis was with ESSO XD3 0W40 which was a CI4 spec oil.

Yes I am on Bitog and have found a few of your posts using the search function. Who are you using to do your analysis?
2007 F350 6.0 Powerstroke with Esso XD3 0W40 - Bob Is The Oil Guy

Sometimes manufacturer specific forums are better at finding specific problems than general forums are. I was thinking this might be valvetrain related but how exactly would the valves wear?

I might take an early sample on this oil, unfortunately I dont have a consistent oil in the next sample. This sample posted here was not a change but a quick sample to see how the oil sheared over an additional 1000km. Blackstone took 1 month getting results back and I did the change before they got back to me. Current oil is a mix of Petro-Can and ESSO as I had some leftover ESSO that I needed to use up. Had blackstone been more on the ball I would have not mixed the oils to keep my sampling consistent to troubleshoot this problem.

 

I have used Polaris, MRT Labs, and Blackstone. I like MRT labs the best - no concrete reason, just seem to be more thorough when communicating with them.

I looked up the ESSO oil on the API web site and could not find your oil in the list of API certified oil. Does it have the starburst on it and is it a CI4+ or CJ4 oil? It may be a very fine oil, but it may not perform well with the 6.0L components. This is the way I am feeling about the Schaeffer right now.

http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseI...LicenseNo=0020

I did find the Duron-E in the API certified list:

http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseI...LicenseNo=0064

Here are choices for UOA:
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 321pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=428 border=0 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 321pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 15652" width=428><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 321pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=428 height=17>OIL ANALYSIS</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17 x:str="http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ ">http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ </TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 30pt; mso-height-source: userset" height=40><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 30pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=40 x:str="http://www.dysonanalysis.com/ ">http://www.dysonanalysis.com/ </TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>http://www.butler-machinery.com/services/product_support_oil.asp
</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 321pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=428 height=17>http://www.polarislabs1.com/</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 321pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=428 height=17>http://www.oaitesting.com/</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>http://www.avlab.com/</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" height=17>https://www.herguth.com/testing/prodprot.htm</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 16.5pt; mso-height-source: userset" height=22><TD class=xl27 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 321pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; HEIGHT: 16.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=428 height=22>http://www.mrtlaboratories.com/</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Butler and Polaris do laser particle counts for insolubles which I hear is very good. I believe avlabs does metals only and is primarily for the aircraft industry (what I remember reading). oaitesting is associated w/ Amsoil I believe.

Again, I bet your iron will come down w/ the Duron oil. It is not so high to worry a bunch IMO, but keep an eye on it. Also, I have read that it will usually be on the third oil change where your results are consistent after changing brands of oil.

Hopefully some folks with experience in the oil analysis arena chime in. I really enjoy learning about the field (although, unless the results are REALLY bad, there seems to be as much "art" as "science").

 

Thanks for doing the extra digging Mark,
You didnt find it because they list it as imperial oil (which is the Canadian subsidiary of exxon-mobil). Gas stations and oils are all esso though, kind of like the international-navistar relationship.

http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseI...LicenseNo=0104

The new oil is CI4+ (DPF compatible) but the stuff that I was using was just CI4. I am done buying it now, the old stuff was $22 for 4L at walmart, the new stuff is $35 and it doesnt seem to perform as well as the cheaper Petro-Canada anyway.

 

Mark,

Where are you getting you valvoline extreme blue. Reading the bove posts I am worried because I use 15/40 all year long. I do plug it in but as of late I have been having problems with my truck on cold starts. I am looking for a good oil, not that I want this to be a oil thread, sorry to , I was going to use Mobil but its 26.00 for 4 quart jug. Spence is using the Rotella 5w40 synthetic which isnt badly priced at 19.00 for 5 qt. jug. I respect your opinon and kinda mimic some of the things you do since you ae **** and research everything so well. I have been trying to find the Valvoline Premium Blue Synthetic but cant.

Again sorry to ijack this thread but I was reading up and now I m worried about the 15/40 and the issues I am having. I will get a UOA at the next change.

Thanks for the help.

Sarge

 

This is one of those "for what its worth" suggestions, BUT here it is.......
It seems like you drive this truck very gently, and you have used syn oil since new. My first impression is that you may have a "breaking in" issue, which would explain some of the readings in your report. My suggestion to you would be to ditch the syn for one oil change, get some good old fashioned dino oil and take your truck on a few "hard" runs, or find something nice and heavy to tow around for a few miles. Diesels do not take well to being babied. They need to get hot and they need to work hard to do that.
I'm not suggesting that you go crazy and abuse your truck, but it wouldn't be the firsat time a diesel was killed by kindness.
I'd be surprised that after you do this, if your oil reports dont come back much impoved

 

You have a PM Sarge.