Did the 09’s come out with only 10 more HP to help Ford sell off the 08 inventory? Dodge came out with 390hp and now has 70,000 08 rams on the lot, perhaps this wasn’t the best plan? Ford comes out with 09’s get a year under their belt doesn’t produce a ton of them because they are still trying to dump the 08’s. The model year 2010 after gas prices HOPEFULLY settle down and any modifications that need to be done are done they debut the 420hp monster? Along with a eco-boost at 375hp?

I hope so, I just can’t go out and spend the same price as a Dodge and GM and have 70 – 100 less hp, I don’t care what the marketing team toss’s out there for towing ability that’s not even competitive. I know we are all ford fans here, but I just can’t accept a positive spin for 25% LESS power with virtually the same mileage. I just can’t… and I really, really want to buy a new Ford, hopefully a raptor (although I really need a Screw) but something has to give here….

 

No, Ford just ran out of money to invest anymore into the 6.2L which was slated to give the bigger power numbers and just tweaked the 5.4L to get some kind of gain.

 

There is a huge difference between the way Ford distributes its products and the way Chrysler does. Just about every truck that rolls off the line at Ford is a dealer order--whether it's a special customer order, or a fleet order, or for dealer inventory based on what the dealer has sold in the past--on the entirely logical premise that dealers understand best exactly what's selling.

Chrysler is famous for filling stadium and airport parking lots in metro Detroit with unsold, unordered suvs and trucks that then get jammed down the dealers' throats at the end of the quarter by regional sales managers. It devalues the vehicles to both the dealers and potential customers.

Now, what Ford does to entice the dealers to take trucks that might remain in inventory for 45-60+ days, I don't know. It's likely a balancing act with distribution of hot-selling models.

What's more likely is that Ford has taken a realistic view of its core buyers' profile and decided that crankshaft power isn't as important to it as it is to the ephemeral part of the market--the segment that's abandoning it in droves for the Next Cool Thing. Never forget that Ford OWNS the full size truck market because it understands true truck buyers like no other manufacturer. And face it--if horsepower is your primary concern, you ain't one. Once Ford gets a better idea of what's going to happen over the next couple years as far as sales volume goes, then you'll see the other stuff that's in the pipeline. Trust me, there's some cool stuff coming. And like Forrest Gump said, that's all I'm going to say about that.

 

That's actually a very clever point of view! I'm trusting that Mistrtoad is a man with solid inside info. I also agree that the core Ford truck buyers are less concerned about HP numbers than overall capability, reliability, long term endurance and high quality customer support.

Tim

 

You make some good points but this is not true. Ford does NOT own the market. Chevy and GMC combined has outsold Ford for years. Its clever marketing on Fords part but a GMC and Chebby go down the same line. Maybe GM understands the market better than Ford hence the 6.2 monster engine being available now. Time will tell I guess.

I know what you mean. Maybe the truck will surprise us. Everywhere I have read its getting rave reviews but Im not keen on giving up 75hp and 40 ft lbs of torque. It appears the F150 is the heaviest of the bunch and needs everything it can get.

Let me say the hp/torque is not my primary concern but it is a concern and Ford comes up on the short end of the stick. No way they can sugar coat that one. They are outgunned with no advantage in fuel economy. I like the truck a lot but the GM truck may be a better compromise at least to me.

 

When are all you guys gonna stop bitching and moaning. Dodge and Chev both produce more power from the factory but they take a distant second and third behind Ford in reliability and value retention. Besides.. The FIRST thing everybody does with these trucks is put a chip in it and upgrade the exhaust, power defict all but erased.

 

I hear what your saying, but to say I am not core truck buyer because I am allow things like HP, trq, price and capability make my decisions is a little presumptuous.

I am starting to believe Ford wants to sell trucks to the people that will spend 40g's on a pickup and not look at any other options. The "bleed blue" group that will buy whatever Ford throws at them. **Cough** 6.0 powerstroke **Cough**

Personally I want Ford to compete for my dollar, make the most HP, most trq and get the best MPG. Go out and make the best product.

Spend a little less on marketing and a lot more just making that product perfect. the Detroit locker is the perfect example, a selectable locker in the rear (wish we had the front as well) is absolutly the kind of ideas I want to see in my truck. If that doesn't make me a core truck buyer then I guess your right I am not.

BUT

As a core truck buyer why wouldn't I buy the most truck for the least amount of money that I could?
I hear people say what Tim said all the time longest lasting, high quality parts, but I have never seen a quantifiable statistic to prove it, that's why I have to believe that's Ford Marketing and not Ford products.

Maybe I am wrong, (I HOPE I am) I just want to see something, SOMETHING that makes me say yea, I can see how Ford's new truck is better than xxxx truck. If it's HP great, if it a quiet inside is what selling trucks great (I don't see how that fits into the "core truck" market though), if it's price great, just show me (quantifiably) something!

I don't want to bag on Ford, I am a fan and I will buy one. I just need "the one" to be the best at something, if it's HP and trq perfect! If it's offroad capabilities (Dodge Power Wagon) AWESOME! If it's the complete overall capable truck for the best, great! Just give me something I want to buy!!!

I can't buy a truck because it says Ford on it, I just can't. specially when the other brands have more for less $$$ then even as a Ford fan I can't say that's the truck I want.


Whoever has the inside scoop with connections, I am begging you... Make the Raptor, 420hp or more... Make the Eco-boost turbo charged, make the bobcat motor 500hp and 700pnd ft, make the boss hoss off road truck, make those, standup be counted on as the top producer of trucks!!!!

 

ONLY if the Dodge, Tundra, Chevy owners don't do the same. This kinda reminds me of the old LS1 Camaro/Firebird vs Mustang debate.

 

Yes.. that's exactly what it is... a childish game up oneupmanship. Ford has never produced the most powerful 1/2 ton truck on the road, but that didn't stop it from becoming the most popular vehicle in North America for years on end. Go talk to some used car dealers and they'll tell you they can sell every single F150 they can get thier hands on while the Chev and Dodge 1/2 tons just sit on the lot. If HP numbers really mattered to the vast majority of truck buyers this simply wouldn't be the case.

 

Lets see. the F150 with its lesser hp/lb-ft is only:

.28 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile than the 09 Ram HEMI 5.7L
.53 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile than the 09 Titan 5.6L
1.02 seconds slower in the 1/4 mile than the 09 Tundra 5.7L

.38 seconds slower 0-60 than the 09 Ram HEMI 5.7L
1.04 seconds slower 0-60 than the 09 Titan 5.6L
1.6 seconds slower 0-60 than the 09 Tundra 5.7L

So for all their extra hp/lb-ft that everyone brags about having or people complaining the F150 doesn't have, the straight figures don't show a significant difference.

Personally I much rather spend the same amount of money for a much better built truck than one that does .38-1.6 seconds quick 0-60 or .28-1.02 seconds quicker in the 1/4 mile. Heck half those times can be made up by a better driver.

And again, I hate people that all they see a truck should be about is 0-60 or 1/4 mile times and how much hp/lb-ft a truck has. But I thought I'd break it down for everyone that even with only 310/365, the 09 F150 competes very well even being the heaviest truck of the bunch. And this is with the Ford having a 3.40 axle ratio. Throw in the 3.73 and I wonder how those figures would improve. Here's where I'm getting these figures.

 

That's a great chart and it exposes the difference gears make. If the Toyota had a 3.50ish rear end like the others then it's results would look similar to the Dodge and you could throw a blanket over the whole fleet.

 

Exactly!!! People forget the rear end of the Tundra until it's pointed out.

Imagine buying an '09 F150 5.4L 6spd and throwing in a 4.10 gear ratio or larger. Think that'd make up the majority if not all the difference in those times.

EDIT: Then again throw in a larger ratio for the Ram too for comparison sake and the F150 would still be down slightly compared to the Ram, but still very respectable.

EDIT #2: Also, these tests were most likely taken on 87 octane. So test the truck with E85 using the 320/390 figures and then lets see the times.

EDIT #3: Sorry, but look at the avg mpgs of the Titan vs the rest. Kind of sad it's last, but the Ram is still 2nd to last.

 

I agree with the above however I the company that really got shafted on the test was GM. look at their silverado, 5.3 (middle of the road V-8, 6.2 and 6.0 were left out) and had the WORST gearing w/ 3.42s. I'd like to see them all compaired with 3.73s except the toyota which can keep the 4.30s as it's transmission is set up for tall gears with lower gear ratios (i.e. fords 4.17 vs GMs 4.03 vs Toyotas 3.33). If that makes sense. Maybe even have them balance out the 60 mph RPM to see how closely they are geared? I hate these test because they aren't really fair to everyone (Toyota always gives their mack daddy while GM and Ford give there average equiped trucks).

 

[quote=watz;6667755]I hear what your saying, but to say I am not core truck buyer because I am allow things like HP, trq, price and capability make my decisions is a little presumptuous.

Sorry dude, not saying YOUR not a core Ford truck buyer, I'm simply stating that a typical (such as myself) core Ford truck buyer is less concerned about HP then the attributes that I mentioned above. I hear ya, but take a close look at Justin's chart.

Tim

 

I dont see it that way. What I see is Ford not being competitive with top engine availability. Ford does not offer a 3.40 axle ratio either. That is a misprint. 3.31, 3.55, or 3.73 according to Ford in that particular model tested. Because they dont offer a 4.10 or 4.30 ratio is their problem not mine. The tranny is geared different anyway so a lot of talk about this is a wash. I bet the tested truck had 3.73 gears but that is just a guess.

If they had not killed the Boss 6.2 we would see the F150 stomp a mud hole in the Tundras A## and those of you that say its no big deal would be cheering Ford on probably.

When big money is on the line like for the purchase of a new truck Im test driving them all and will then make up my own mind. I have driven Fords with the 3v 5.4 and honest to God I have not been impressed in the least. I felt like it was adequate at best. Yes, Im going to consider the flimsy chassis that Toyota makes along with everybody elses problems as well.

Somebody somewhere needs to prove to me scientifically that a F150 will outlast and be more reliable than the competition. Everybody loves to talk about the low end torque of the 5.4 but I want somebody to put every single brand and a chassis dyno and lets find out for sure. Until then, its just talk to me. I sure never felt it in the seat of my pants but the seat of my pants are not an accurate measurement.

On paper the F150 is the best built truck minus the engine. I sure would like to have one but the 5.4 may keep me from buying. Perhaps I will be surprised how good the six speed has complimented it.

Oh, and in the PM test. The chevy had the old 4 speed I think. I could be wrong about that.