Ok, in the hopes of clarifying this thread for myself and everybody else...if I may, the camshft is the component that gets installed "straight up" as per your cam card/manufacturers specs. The cams on these engines I believe are ground "retarded" as mentioned. Therefore you would need the specs of the grind itself inorder to precisely install the cam straight up. Which in my mind is not what you want because it will just end up being where it is now. The multi index double roller chain/gear set in the photo would be an excellent choice, However, you can go overboard and do too much advance and then have mechanical issues. I am just going by memory now so please if I am incorrect, jump in I believe that the 429scj set will actually set this cam advanced and therefore give a little more bottom end power. I believe that simply installing the gear set straight up does not necessarilly install the cam straight up. Geo.

 

Wrong!
Clear as mud.

The Crank keyway is "Straight Up" and in alignment with the adjacent tooth.
The marks are on the CRANK sprocket.....
The cam sprocket index is in ALL cases straight down.

As is seen above, the crank sprocket can be broached with the keyway slightly off center of a tooth, offering various options for advance or retard.

As I mentioned in post 10, the cam may be ground retarded or advanced, but most cam companies (as opposed to carmakers) wouldn't mess with the public like this.

If you really want to know, then go to the trouble of degreeing your cam and comparing it to the cam card provided.

 

John, I have a 96 F250 in which I just rebuilt the 460. I too was scratching my head on the timing chains. Late model chains, when bolted on in the straight up marks aligned position, are 8 degrees retarded. The stock timing chain set is made in retarded position for emissions. The Crane Cams chain in the picture (as well as the Ford Racing one I bought) allows you to adjust initial timing on the chain. I went with zero on the Ford racing chain. This would be like advancing the stock timing 8 degrees. It should give you some power and keep you out of trouble. Too much advance and you will have to switch to premium gas.

 

Sorry, not trying to argue, but...I was not making reference to the camshaft sproket or it's location in reference to the keyway on the crank. What I was trying to say is that in order to install a CAMSHAFT straight up you have to use the specs/degree wheel etc. in order to determine weather the cam when installed with a Stock timing set gives you the same numbers as the card does, if not then you would entertain the idea of getting a multi index crank sprocket in order to set the cam to the card. On my old race truck I had to set it at 2 degrees advanced (on crank sprocket)to get the Cam/valvetrain to do what the card said. All this being said, none of this is really necessary on a daily driver. Geo.

 

No problem,
I wasn't meaning to argue either.

Like I said it's getting "clear as mud"
I'm not trying to confuse the issue, the OP just wants to get his truck on the road.

In John's first post he asked "which timing set to get"
Being a college kid who's taking the bus, I don't think he's in for a cam swap, but with 130k it's WAY past time for a timing set.

IMO any inexpensive steel sprocket timing set will last just fine for a DD.
A cheap double roller set like the Cloyes 1122 might be a better choice, and gives the option of 2* (cam) either way from stock.
But it's another $20, which depending on your finances might be better spent on something you need, like a gasket set.
...or some beers after you're done.

 

Ya the Beers are nice and the girls, well you know. Any how I think when I do get the time and money I will go with just a plain timing set. I saw one on summit for around $70 and the description said it was Heavy duty. It was the only one that did not have the options at the crankshaft to either retard or advance the timing. I do not remember the part number but all I did was to put in my vehicle description (see signature) and at the end of the blue links for parts I selected "all parts" or something along those lines, and then I picked timing sets from the long list of parts and then found the set I mentioned from above. So for now I am going to be paying for a routine Doctor checkup (insurance does not kick in till $500) so I will have to postpone the timing set work.

 

John,

If you're shopping Summit I'm sure there's less expensive alternatives.
A 'store brand' set should run you $25 or so, the one I mentioned above is under $50.
I haven't looked in a while, but that range will cover what you need.

Most aftermarket sprockets will have the option. Just put it in at the factory setting and don't fret about it.
With as many miles as you have on your chain I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised at how much better your truck runs.
Whatever you end up doing I wish you luck, and hope you get your truck back on the road soon.

 

If stock OEM crank gear is retarded 8*, & if you get a new set that the crank gear has 4* retard, straight up TDC or 4* advance keyway slots, would you set the new crank gear at 4* advance to match the 8* of the stocker.
Or, just set it TDC.

Is it normal for an aftermarket cam to be ground advanced or retarded, or is that something that would be listed in detail with a new cam.
Neil

 

Neil if you use an aftermarket roller timing chain you just set it to the straight up position (if you use one specifically for models after 74 then you need to use the advance position but you will need a degree wheel to figure out where it is) basically if it's a universal set then it will put the cam at straight up position supposedly (never can be sure without actually degreeing it)
As to aftermarket most cam companies do tell you on the cam card but few people know how to read it well enough to understand it. This is done intentionally because where the cam is set is figured in with the purpose and type of grind it is and when people see it has advance built in they second guess the grinder without knowing why and try to change the timing. Almost all cams actually do have some advance built into them. First you would have to understand how straight up is figured then looking at a cam card becomes easy. look at LSA (lobe separation angle) pretty typical would be say 111deg then look at ICL (intake center line) a typical one would be 107deg ok that would be 4 deg advance built into the cam, straight up is when the LSA matches the ICL. THAT is how the cam is actually figured BUT for a cam to be straight up as ground you just want to put the timing to be set at whatever the cam grinder sets as teh ICL and don't worry about if they put in advance or not, it was put in for a better performance.

 

10/4 got that.
I remember 112* but dont remember which.
Thats not the distance between the lobe from one to the other, right.
Is the 112* when one valve is closing & then the other is opening, like at a point, the exhaust is closing & then the intake opens just a bit before the exhaust closes completely.
That was what Briggs called their easy spin cycle between the valves to make the rope easier to pull.
Thanks, Neil

 

LSA is the angle in degrees of separation between the point of max lift on the intake valve to the point of max lift on the exhaust lobe. (not always the lobe centerline but on most cams it would be)

 

Thanks,
man you sharp as a tack with this, bet you got a bunch of shingles hanging on your walls.

You check out some of the 2 cycle web sites, you be down town at my house then, guys from over the world know me.
Neil

 

Thank you for the compliment.