My '05 has been getting a lot of "dyno miles" lately.

I can do 3rd gear pulls with mine (helped by the 4.10 gears) but I have to bump the speed limiter up to about 115 with the Edge to do it. If we don't , it cuts out at about 99 mph. When in the stock tune, torque control will sometimes pull back power too, which is inconvenient. After a few runs, the cats will get really hot and the PCM will go into cat protection and will start dumping fuel to cool the cats... and that kills the power. You have to give it a few minutes to cool.

Stock, with under 10K miles on the engine, my '05 5.4L made an average of 202.64 hp and 251.66 lbs-ft average torque over about six runs whose graphs you could lay right over the top of each other. Pretty consistent.

With a couple of common mods, it bumped up to an average of 237.98 hp and 291.32 lbs-ft over three runs. All the runs were corrected number on a hot truck.

Done more testing but I can't release all the numbers just yet. Oh, and the mods you see blow aren't necessarily those for the numbers I listed above... just to keep you guessing. All will be revealed at some point.

 

If you ever learn anything about our trucks, please look back at what you said in this thread.,find a wall and do this

 

Try some english if you want me to comprehend what you're attempting to say. You have a blower...whoopie. My point is simple...CAI's are junk, and so are tuners if you're looking for big horsies...I bought mine to change some things, and it did it quite well for what I wanted it to do.

P.S. Did YOU install anything on your truck, or did you take it to a shop to have them do it for you?

 

Try some English
I take it you road to school on the short bus. That would explain why you are not able to understand any information posted by others unless it is an opinion.

My blower has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I do agree that your point is simple which is why it is yours.
You called BS on the young mans dyno numbers based on what you think you know. Based on your post in this thread, YOU DON'T KNOW JACK
If you would like for me to provide the facts to show this, PLEASE LET ME KNOW

The following dyno results show you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to the products used in making power with an 04+ F150




268 312


Intakes,exhaust, tuners with custom tunes are the standard basic bolt on mods used on our trucks.

I would be more than happy to play KNOWLEDGE with you and show you just how little you know about our trucks

Your PS

 

calm it down guys.

damn, 268 hp with just a tuner/cai ain't bad....actually it's totally awesome to me. what was the A/F mix at?

and what is your truck putting down now?

 

Not my trucks numbers.
But the numbers are good numbers considering it is a 4x4 California truck with an email tune, intake, exhaust and 35"s

In 2006 before the blower I was at 274/328 with intake, custom exhaust, headers, dyno tune, and a lot of hard work..
416/429 with test products that have worked well for the last year

A 2007-2008 with an intake, exhaust, tuner, tunes and some dyno tuning hits 275/325 with ease

 

wow...that is just evil to have that kind of power on tap

wish I could talk the wife into letting me get one. thanks for the info

 

In California, our numbers have always been lower than those in other states with higher octane gas

Here is a dyno from my car on 91octane 436rwhp up to 512rwhp on 93octane

 

It's painfully obvious to anyone knowing the internals of the PCM that some folks are posting misinformation, believing they are expects.

1. Some CAIs do make a difference. Not all are created equal. AF1s have been proven, repeatedly, on dynos. I know of others that reduce mid-range HP but increase high end HP. Others... do nothing. Claiming that all CAIs are junk because they have years of experience, but no experience dyno running multiple brands of intakes... well, those folks are misinformed. Even Ford uses a CAI type design in these trucks, with a baffle to lower noise (and power a little). Maybe the CAI they purchased is "junk" because it screws up the MAF reading, but not all are. The CAI needs to be properly designed on 2004+ F150s because unlike the older models MAF placement is critical. IATs make a tremendous difference in power and different intakes are better at delivering cooler air than others, and different intakes have better heat reflective properties when it comes to heat (AF1 comes to mind).

2. Using an Edge tuner as a benchmark for power... well, its a poor benchmark. The reason the Edge programs the PCM so fast and produces so little power is because, at best, it only touches about 15 tables. A good custom tune changes dozens of tables. Furthermore, the Edge doesn't program catch code specific tunes, but instead applies changes pretty much universally. That's not taking very good advantage of the significant differences in PCM codes. For instance, the pedal slope of 2007-2008 F150s is much more sensitive than 2004-2006. It makes them feel more powerful but apples to apples on the dyno they aren't. The downside to the more aggressive slope and more sensitive tip-in is lower fuel mileage. CAM and fly-by-wire controls are extremely complex on these trucks and should be addressed individually by PCM code rather than in a universal fashion for best power and overall driveability. Some of the canned tunes have been so bad that the canned tuned companies hired outside custom tune guys to come in and fix their work. You can bet your bottom dollar that the guys providing the fixes don't give away all their secrets. SCT's canned tunes are generally better than most, but still leave a lot of room for improvement. The Edge is a great tool for electronic gauges and making fast changes, but if you're willing to give those features up there is much better tuning available.

3. Programmers do more than just firm up shifts and WOT settings. This isn't 1992 --- a lot has changed in the tuning world. Spark retard and advance tables are changed to help the engine not only run the most spark it can at any given time, but also to be able to quickly pull timing when spark knock occurs. This is at all throttle positions. Fueling is changed as well, throughout the curve, as is tip-in control, throttle slopes, throttle response to driver demand, torque management during shifts (which is different from firmness) and more. Even the fuel pump is controlled via the PCM and that can make a difference by reducing pressure drops on throttle demand. Even the RPM ranges where the PCM "adapts" can be changed. I could write pages about everything that is changed with good custom tuning.

4. Altitude, air temps and humidity shouldn't have major impacts on proper dyno pulls. A proper dyno pull has an electronic weather station and provides corrected numbers. Dyno numbers are useless for comparision if they aren't corrected numbers. Without corrected numbers the only thing you can compare are back to back pulls, and even then the conditions such as air temp can change in 15 minutes. Also, proper cool down of the engine needs to occur between pulls because heat soak can rob power from the numbers due to higher IATs.

5. Firming up shifts can increase clutch life, but on the flip side can reduce band life. Also, the F150's stock tune isn't made necessarily with comfort in mind (though that is a goal), but also the adaptive tables are designed to keep it from going into the shop for as a long as possible (I'll let you draw your own conclusions here about Ford's warranty support). They do this by increasing shift pressure in an attempt to meet slip time goals even as the clutches wear out. Your transmission can still feel "good" because the computer is ramping up pressure to mask clutch wear. This is one of the reasons people say the transmission is adaptive. If you are more aggressive the shifts are going to occur with longer slip time and the computer will increase pressure to get the slip times back within range. If you're always soft on the throttle the slip times are met and the tranny will soften shifts so long as they are near the stated range.

A lot has changed over the years and much of the "old school" knowledge doesn't apply unless you're still tickering with carburators or EEC-IV.

A point of trivia... one of the best things you can do to insure longer transmission life is to take the truck out of overdrive before romping the throttle. When you romp the throttle and the truck is in 4th gear it actually jumps past 3rd and shifts into 2nd. This shift is extremely hard on the tranny. Its much better to hit the overdrive button to drop to 3rd, then stomp the throttle.

 

Ken,
I agree with 99% of what you said. The 1% is the 07-08 vs 04-06 power factor. Now I own an 05 and would love nothing more for that to be true.
Granted there is a +/- correction factor since all trucks are different but mod for mod the 07-08 dyno numbers seem to be about +8 to +10 over the 04-06.
.

 

Drew those are some good numbers.
Right on Ken. I agree with all of that. Custom dyno tuning involves so many tables. When I actually saw all of these tables it helped me understand the difference between plugging in a tuner making a couple of changes compared to spending 5 hours altering these tables, performing dyno runs then comparing then re-tuning and more dyno runs. The A/F ratio is very important.

As far as turning off OD when going WOT I have always done that due to a slight delay.

I have noticed that it appears that the 07-08's are reporting slightly better numbers than the 04-05's. Do you know of any possible reason why?

Has Ford done anything different with 07-08 from the factory?

 

There may be some confusion about one factor (2004-2006 vs 2007-2008) based on what I said above. I need to clarify. I never said they had the same power. I meant in an apples to apples comparison they would be the same, except one would feel more powerful. In other words if they had the same PCM codes and the same exhaust manifolds (they changed in 2007) and the same fan clutch (changed in 2007) but the pedal slopes and tip-in in the PCM are different (as they are) the dyno numbers would be the same but one would feel more powerful. I guess what I'm trying to imply is seat of the pants driveability is often just as important, if not more, than actual power output unless you're racing or towing. If Ford would pay more attention this they'd take more market share... test drives are all about driveability.

Another way of putting it is I could take a 2004 and give it a 2007 pedal feel and make the throttle respond like a 2007 while adding no actual horsepower.

The 2007-2008 have better exhaust manifolds and overall better tuning from the factory than the 2004-2006 so they will show slightly better numbers. Also, another factor that gives them slightly better numbers is the fan clutch. In 2007 Ford switched over to an electronically controlled fan clutch rather than a standard thermostat controlled. The computer doesn't engauge the clutch while at high speed, unlike the thermostat controlled unit. The major drawback to it is that this electronic clutch is very prone to failure. The odds are good that if your truck is a 2007-2008 and has 50K on the odometer the clutch is permanently engaged when the engine is running. So while in the beginning this electronic clutch adds power it will eventually fail and rob power because it will stay engaged all the time.... at higher RPMs the power loss will be the most significant. Ford also reduced the weight on the trucks as well --- some of it looks cheap such as getting rid of the nice radiator cover and replacing it with a small piece of plastic (probably saves a couple of pounds), and in other places they reduced the number of layers of sound proofing where it was determined not to increase noise.

 

Couldn't agree more with SLF, Anaheim and Ken... canned tunes vs spending time on the dyno, there's no comparisson. I don't even wanna know how much time my car has spent on the dyno at $120/hr... a CAI will improve power quite a bit over stock if tuned right. Untuned, few of them will improve power, if not even hurt it...

FatalErrorz, you badmouth off the shelf tweaks, yet to you use the Edge getting 10hp as a point in your argument? That makes no sense...