Horsepower vs Torque
Tuned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 338
Likes: 25
From: Hooterville, WI
How about we put it in terms of drag racing?
Torque = E.T. (elapsed time)
Horsepower = Trap speed (mph)
Two different cars can get to the end of the track in the same amount of time and one can be going a lot faster then the other.
Torque = E.T. (elapsed time)
Horsepower = Trap speed (mph)
Two different cars can get to the end of the track in the same amount of time and one can be going a lot faster then the other.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 39
I'm not sure of the answer, just throwing a hunch out there.
Tuned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 338
Likes: 25
From: Hooterville, WI
Hmmm... If the cars weigh the same, and they have the same E.T., wouldn't they have to have the same average horsepower over the run? Ignoring wind resistance, of course, for the purposes of this discussion.
I'm not sure of the answer, just throwing a hunch out there.
I'm not sure of the answer, just throwing a hunch out there.
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,723
Likes: 2,650
From: SE Florida
No, inertia is how far you take it with you. If you tried to push a building, or pull it with a chain, then torque is how far you take it with you.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
Hmmm... If the cars weigh the same, and they have the same E.T., wouldn't they have to have the same average horsepower over the run? Ignoring wind resistance, of course, for the purposes of this discussion.
I'm not sure of the answer, just throwing a hunch out there.
I'm not sure of the answer, just throwing a hunch out there.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
Does anyone have any slip times? I would love to see some numbers from some guys on the forums. I wish I had a drag strip around here!
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Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 2
OK, so now the question I have is this: How can I get the torque curve to come up faster and at lower RPM. I can get it into top gear with the TC locked at under 45 MPH and around 1250 RPM. I'm only doing 2000 RPM at 70 and I usually don't drive much faster than that. I could care less about peak HP, I'd like to have 90%+ of peak torque anywhere over 1000 RPM and have the curve pretty well flat out to 2500 or so.
Like Playa says, peak numbers might look good on paper but that's not the way I drive my truck. I see the ads for intakes that add let's say 15 HP, but looking at the chart there is almost no difference from stock in the RPM range where I operate. For anyone, the gain is not just the additional area under the curve, it's the additional area under the part of the curve where you run your engine. If you never run out there at 3500+ it does you no good at all if that's where any appreciable gain comes in at. That applies to any mod you are thinking about, unless you are doing the mod for other reasons. I've heard that the Fluidampr adds a little to torque and HP numbers but that's not why I got one. I got it to smooth the engine out and hopefully make it last longer.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,275
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
OK, so now the question I have is this: How can I get the torque curve to come up faster and at lower RPM. I can get it into top gear with the TC locked at under 45 MPH and around 1250 RPM. I'm only doing 2000 RPM at 70 and I usually don't drive much faster than that. I could care less about peak HP, I'd like to have 90%+ of peak torque anywhere over 1000 RPM and have the curve pretty well flat out to 2500 or so.
Like Playa says, peak numbers might look good on paper but that's not the way I drive my truck. I see the ads for intakes that add let's say 15 HP, but looking at the chart there is almost no difference from stock in the RPM range where I operate. For anyone, the gain is not just the additional area under the curve, it's the additional area under the part of the curve where you run your engine. If you never run out there at 3500+ it does you no good at all if that's where any appreciable gain comes in at. That applies to any mod you are thinking about, unless you are doing the mod for other reasons. I've heard that the Fluidampr adds a little to torque and HP numbers but that's not why I got one. I got it to smooth the engine out and hopefully make it last longer.
Like Playa says, peak numbers might look good on paper but that's not the way I drive my truck. I see the ads for intakes that add let's say 15 HP, but looking at the chart there is almost no difference from stock in the RPM range where I operate. For anyone, the gain is not just the additional area under the curve, it's the additional area under the part of the curve where you run your engine. If you never run out there at 3500+ it does you no good at all if that's where any appreciable gain comes in at. That applies to any mod you are thinking about, unless you are doing the mod for other reasons. I've heard that the Fluidampr adds a little to torque and HP numbers but that's not why I got one. I got it to smooth the engine out and hopefully make it last longer.
This is where things get tricky. If you want to get to the torque to come in earlier dramatic engine changes will have to be made. I would love to see a curve of the 6.0 vs the 6.4. The reason I say this is because a small turbo would spool quicker thus building boost and torque earlier in the RPM range, then combine that with a larger turbo to continue throughout the entire rpm range of the motor... thus we have the 6.4. I believe 100% of the torque is available at 2000rpm. That is pretty impressive. As for the 6.0 your best bet is to change the gearing to get into the meat of the powerband faster. This will not allow you to get your torque at a lower rpm, but it will allow you to get to that rpm quicker. However, unlike gas race engines, our engine does not have an 8000rpm redline and this concept may not work as well with our diesel. Does that make any sense?
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 23,174
Likes: 1,678
From: Stephensville WI
Raising your torque curve at lower RPM is done by more efficient filling of your combustion chamber. On a normally aspirated engine, this is done by using smaller intake ports (which accelerate the intake charge), careful combustion chamber design and efficient exhaust ports. Intake port length can also be changed to move the torque curve up or down the RPM range.
It is just the opposite of what you would expect, racing engines with huge intake and exhaust ports and lumpy cams, but those designs are for high RPM power.
As previously mentioned, on a turbocharged engine you get the a smaller turbo so it spools up faster.
NOS can also be used for a quick burst of torque, but NOS injection will raise power throughout the RPM range.
It is just the opposite of what you would expect, racing engines with huge intake and exhaust ports and lumpy cams, but those designs are for high RPM power.
As previously mentioned, on a turbocharged engine you get the a smaller turbo so it spools up faster.
NOS can also be used for a quick burst of torque, but NOS injection will raise power throughout the RPM range.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
OK, so now the question I have is this: How can I get the torque curve to come up faster and at lower RPM. I can get it into top gear with the TC locked at under 45 MPH and around 1250 RPM. I'm only doing 2000 RPM at 70 and I usually don't drive much faster than that. I could care less about peak HP, I'd like to have 90%+ of peak torque anywhere over 1000 RPM and have the curve pretty well flat out to 2500 or so.
Get a V10
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,889
Likes: 0
From: MACON, GA
Maybe someone posted and I missed, but from High School Schience, I remember Horsepower this way:
Where did horsepower come from?
James Watt, who did quite a bit of work improving steam engines back in the 1700's, needed a way to measure their output. Watt used a common reference, the horse, as the basis for his calculations (like the inch was based on the width of a man's thumb). The exact process he followed to find out what a horse could do is open to speculation, everyone seems to have their own favorite story, but the end result was: 1 horsepower = 550 foot-pounds per second, which means, in Watt's calculations, a horse can lift 550 pounds one foot in one second.
Where did horsepower come from?
James Watt, who did quite a bit of work improving steam engines back in the 1700's, needed a way to measure their output. Watt used a common reference, the horse, as the basis for his calculations (like the inch was based on the width of a man's thumb). The exact process he followed to find out what a horse could do is open to speculation, everyone seems to have their own favorite story, but the end result was: 1 horsepower = 550 foot-pounds per second, which means, in Watt's calculations, a horse can lift 550 pounds one foot in one second.