adapting different a/c compressor
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 6
From: Florida
adapting different a/c compressor
hello,
Time passes and this may have been discussed before, but I haven't seen it!
Has anyone adapted a different a/c compressor to the 3.0 liter Aerostar with the rear a/c ?? Mine is a 1992, everything continues to work except the a/c.
I have been through four FS-10, I refuse to bother with another. I want a different compressor, something that will last more than 1 year and be a freezer. Is that too much to ask?
In contrast, I also own a 1984 Jaguar XJ-6, I have owned that car for 17 long years. The a/c compressor is a GM A6. It continues to be a freezer in there. Yet, my 1992 FORD a/c doesn't last a year, rebuild after rebuild. It has come to a point where certain a/c Shops and Technicians REFUSE to work on FORD a/c systems. Has anybody experienced THAT? Are Ford a/c systems SO bad? (in my experience I would have to answer, YES, but...I think it comes down to the compressor).
how can this FS-10 be replaced with something better and durable?
Jose
Time passes and this may have been discussed before, but I haven't seen it!
Has anyone adapted a different a/c compressor to the 3.0 liter Aerostar with the rear a/c ?? Mine is a 1992, everything continues to work except the a/c.
I have been through four FS-10, I refuse to bother with another. I want a different compressor, something that will last more than 1 year and be a freezer. Is that too much to ask?
In contrast, I also own a 1984 Jaguar XJ-6, I have owned that car for 17 long years. The a/c compressor is a GM A6. It continues to be a freezer in there. Yet, my 1992 FORD a/c doesn't last a year, rebuild after rebuild. It has come to a point where certain a/c Shops and Technicians REFUSE to work on FORD a/c systems. Has anybody experienced THAT? Are Ford a/c systems SO bad? (in my experience I would have to answer, YES, but...I think it comes down to the compressor).
how can this FS-10 be replaced with something better and durable?
Jose
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,452
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
Jose,
There must be something fundamentally wrong with the way your A/C system was repaired. The FS-10 compressor on my van lasts forever, but you need to be absolutely sure that everything was flushed out properly, your orifice tube is replaced, and your accumulator is replaced.
If the guy who did your compressor just replaced it without doing any of those, surely your compressor will go out again within a year.
There must be something fundamentally wrong with the way your A/C system was repaired. The FS-10 compressor on my van lasts forever, but you need to be absolutely sure that everything was flushed out properly, your orifice tube is replaced, and your accumulator is replaced.
If the guy who did your compressor just replaced it without doing any of those, surely your compressor will go out again within a year.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 6
From: Florida
fundamentality
Copper,
3 of the 4 times that the system has been rebuilt, I have been involved with the rebuild, whether watching, or helping, or asking questions, or making sure new parts are installed properly.
The system has been flushed, accumulators replaced, condensers replaced, compressors replaced, orifice tubes replaced, you name it, and then flushed again, and evacuated, and checked for leaks everytime, not to mention the technician is experienced with Fords. And yet, it always works halfway-there, or not at all, and when it finally does, it doesn't last. (the compressor is always the culprit).
I have heard of "black-death" but my system does not exhibit any of the symptoms of such, no buildup of anything around the orifice tubes, (or anywhere for that matter), but just to be sure, I have replaced condensers too.
Maybe you have been lucky with your FS-10? I sure haven't.
So is it even possible to adapt a larger compressor? I don't think the FS-10 is up to the capacity of a twin-air system.
Jose
3 of the 4 times that the system has been rebuilt, I have been involved with the rebuild, whether watching, or helping, or asking questions, or making sure new parts are installed properly.
The system has been flushed, accumulators replaced, condensers replaced, compressors replaced, orifice tubes replaced, you name it, and then flushed again, and evacuated, and checked for leaks everytime, not to mention the technician is experienced with Fords. And yet, it always works halfway-there, or not at all, and when it finally does, it doesn't last. (the compressor is always the culprit).
I have heard of "black-death" but my system does not exhibit any of the symptoms of such, no buildup of anything around the orifice tubes, (or anywhere for that matter), but just to be sure, I have replaced condensers too.
Maybe you have been lucky with your FS-10? I sure haven't.
So is it even possible to adapt a larger compressor? I don't think the FS-10 is up to the capacity of a twin-air system.
Jose
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,720
Likes: 5
From: Washington state
if you do intown suburban driving during the a/c months turn off the OD below 50 mph and drive in 2nd below 30 mph.
switch a/c shops. they're doing something wrong.
they did not change the front and rear muffler filters, the round black cans. these can NOT be cleaned by flushing, they plug
wrong a/c oil, not enough or too much
undercharged system
failed fan clutch
slipping fan belt
partially plugged air flow thru radiator restricting condenser air flow
look for a hose broken down internally, swelled and partially shut off.
my Aero system is 12 years old, dual, will drive us out of the van on a 100d F day with both front and rear going. original compressor
far better than the wife's two anemic Honda products.
the FS-10 is a high capacity compressor. the problem is in the materials used in the early pump design. solved in later production.
the cheapy rebuilders use cheap low cost pump rebuilt parts
switch a/c shops. they're doing something wrong.
they did not change the front and rear muffler filters, the round black cans. these can NOT be cleaned by flushing, they plug
wrong a/c oil, not enough or too much
undercharged system
failed fan clutch
slipping fan belt
partially plugged air flow thru radiator restricting condenser air flow
look for a hose broken down internally, swelled and partially shut off.
my Aero system is 12 years old, dual, will drive us out of the van on a 100d F day with both front and rear going. original compressor
far better than the wife's two anemic Honda products.
the FS-10 is a high capacity compressor. the problem is in the materials used in the early pump design. solved in later production.
the cheapy rebuilders use cheap low cost pump rebuilt parts
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,036
Likes: 2
From: Portland, Oregon
if you do intown suburban driving during the a/c months turn off the OD below 50 mph and drive in 2nd below 30 mph.
switch a/c shops. they're doing something wrong.
they did not change the front and rear muffler filters, the round black cans. these can NOT be cleaned by flushing, they plug
wrong a/c oil, not enough or too much
undercharged system
failed fan clutch
slipping fan belt
partially plugged air flow thru radiator restricting condenser air flow
look for a hose broken down internally, swelled and partially shut off.
my Aero system is 12 years old, dual, will drive us out of the van on a 100d F day with both front and rear going. original compressor
far better than the wife's two anemic Honda products.
the FS-10 is a high capacity compressor. the problem is in the materials used in the early pump design. solved in later production.
the cheapy rebuilders use cheap low cost pump rebuilt parts
switch a/c shops. they're doing something wrong.
they did not change the front and rear muffler filters, the round black cans. these can NOT be cleaned by flushing, they plug
wrong a/c oil, not enough or too much
undercharged system
failed fan clutch
slipping fan belt
partially plugged air flow thru radiator restricting condenser air flow
look for a hose broken down internally, swelled and partially shut off.
my Aero system is 12 years old, dual, will drive us out of the van on a 100d F day with both front and rear going. original compressor
far better than the wife's two anemic Honda products.
the FS-10 is a high capacity compressor. the problem is in the materials used in the early pump design. solved in later production.
the cheapy rebuilders use cheap low cost pump rebuilt parts
mine was the same untill the muffler tube thingy started leaking due to a slow wear spot. any ways... i agree that something isn't being done right. what? i don't know. but from what little i know it sounds like the compressors that have been put in are either working WAY too hard or are cheaply made/remanufactured
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: North Alabama
Thanks!
New User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
O.k. to start with A/c compressors don't die they are killed. Ussually by poor repairs or people neglecting to see the signs. First what kind of oil did they install w the remand compressors ? ester oil must be installed with conversions from r-12 to r 134 a as the 134 will not carry the oil for the compressor. second what are you're a/c pressures after the compressor installs ? Ford has an adjustable low side pressure switch but if miss adjusted or faulty can cause high side pressures above 300 lbs. which will destroy any a/c compressor . and lastly did the other shop install a new orifice tube ? if the orifice tube is plugged with debris from exploding compressors then the low side pressures will be wlow and if the tech is not paying attention to the high side pressures then again the high side pressures will be too high and the low side too low. The pressures I like to see are approx 22 Lbs. on the low side and 200 to 250 lbs. on the high side with an ambient temp. lower then 80 degrees good luck
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 6
From: Florida
reman vs. new
in the case of my Aerostar, no remanufactured FS10 compressors were installed, they were new, ordered from a reliable supplier. Yes, new orifice tubes were installed every time, I watched the new orifice tubes being installed.
I don't think my first and second posts were understood, everything was specified there, so I don't understand about the "reman" compressors advice.
Also, I did not convert to R134a, I only use R12, and that's an issue which I'm very opinionated about, I simply refuse R134a and will not use it.
What I did not know about, was the adjustable low pressure switch, is this the switch mounted on the accumulator?
I am gathering information because I want to make the a/c system work in my van, I'm going to try again, so I'm thinking of removing every hose and testing each one at a time, then each of the components, less the compressor, accumulator, o-tubes, and any other discardables.
If I cannot do R12 this time, I'm going to use one of the other alternative refrigerants, but not R134a.
thanks for the help.
Jose A.
I don't think my first and second posts were understood, everything was specified there, so I don't understand about the "reman" compressors advice.
Also, I did not convert to R134a, I only use R12, and that's an issue which I'm very opinionated about, I simply refuse R134a and will not use it.
What I did not know about, was the adjustable low pressure switch, is this the switch mounted on the accumulator?
I am gathering information because I want to make the a/c system work in my van, I'm going to try again, so I'm thinking of removing every hose and testing each one at a time, then each of the components, less the compressor, accumulator, o-tubes, and any other discardables.
If I cannot do R12 this time, I'm going to use one of the other alternative refrigerants, but not R134a.
thanks for the help.
Jose A.
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Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,452
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
Hi Jose,
That might be where your problem is. Nowadays, new compressors are normally filled with PAG oil, which is really incompatible with R-12.
HCFC REFRIGERANTS IN PAG OIL
To use R-12, you will have to drain all the PAG oil from the compressor and refill it with mineral oil, which is a real pain in the neck. If you are using one of those alternate refrigerants, make sure it's compatible with the oil you use, and make sure all traces of old oil was removed from the whole system, not just the compressor. A new accumulator with a dessicant compatible with your refrigerant must also be put in.
Just out of curiosity, why the objection to R-134a?
Good luck
That might be where your problem is. Nowadays, new compressors are normally filled with PAG oil, which is really incompatible with R-12.
HCFC REFRIGERANTS IN PAG OIL
To use R-12, you will have to drain all the PAG oil from the compressor and refill it with mineral oil, which is a real pain in the neck. If you are using one of those alternate refrigerants, make sure it's compatible with the oil you use, and make sure all traces of old oil was removed from the whole system, not just the compressor. A new accumulator with a dessicant compatible with your refrigerant must also be put in.
Just out of curiosity, why the objection to R-134a?
Good luck
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,720
Likes: 5
From: Washington state
critical to the compressor and condensor air flow for high cap a/c cooling.
also keeps the engine compartment cooler and the battery charged from the high demand of the fans running full bore
my 96 Aero came stock with R-134a 13 years ago and still cools like a walk in flash freezer on 100d F days in heavy traffic
almost impossible to remove incompatible oil from a compressor and is damaging internally to the compressor.
some residual flush solvent is left inside which takes out the fine finish.
use coolant compatable with the OEM lube that the new compressor comes pre primed with
old non compatable oil also stays in the long hoses of the double a/c unit Aero.
really tought to flush it all out. takes complete disassembly.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,460
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From: Florida
compressor oil
ok > that's a critical point, the oil. Anything is possible.
Alright, so let's just say I'm going to do another rebuild.
Is there a a/c Manual for the Aerostar?
Why I don't care for R134a?
because it doesn't cool as good as R12 or other alternative refrigerants, especially at idling, red lights, etc.
thank you for the support, gentlemen. I do want to keep my Aerostar, that's why I'm trying to do something about this, I can't live without a/c.
Jose
Alright, so let's just say I'm going to do another rebuild.
Is there a a/c Manual for the Aerostar?
Why I don't care for R134a?
because it doesn't cool as good as R12 or other alternative refrigerants, especially at idling, red lights, etc.
thank you for the support, gentlemen. I do want to keep my Aerostar, that's why I'm trying to do something about this, I can't live without a/c.
Jose
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 558
Likes: 0
From: North Alabama
Thanks, 96! I guessed the rpm part, but I didn't think about the airflow on the condenser. I guess that's because I am a washer and dryer person instead of a refrigeration person. That will soon change, because the company is sending me through a refrigeration course so I will be certified to handle and revover refrigerants and work on our refrigeration and air conditioning products.
Thanks again for the lesson.
Thanks again for the lesson.
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