I noticed my Skyjacker 4" front lift srings are just over an inch longer on the front than the rear. Would I run into any problems fliping them around to scoot the axel foward an inch? This will get my tire away from my body mount and I don't have a problem trimming the front fender foward of the tire. 79 F350 4x4 sc

 

never heard of that, if not, you could always get a zero-rate.

 

Whats a zero rate?

 

Offroad Design - Fullsize 4x4 Performance

 

Most leaf spring packs are designed with offset leafs to limit axle wrap under acceleration, and especially under braking (for the front) turning them backwards might just promote a wandering fromt end under hard braking, if your srings are designed this way.
A perfectly symetrical might allow you to get away with it, but there might be some more consideration there.

 

This is from the site in regards to useing their 1" offset on the front and steering.
On front applications with crossover steering be aware that you will be losing clearance between the draglink and your RH spring. The full 1" from the offset Zero Rates™ could cause you problems there - make sure to check it out.

Mine has an adjustable drop rod going from the pitman arm to the steering knuckle arm that I can shorten. It looks aftermarket. I'm guessing the factory arm is straight right? I may need a straight one or may put mine in a press to get angles better since I'm removing a leaf or two from the pack. Is this arm and it's angle a problem area? Does anything else give problems when trying to max out flex with a large tire?

 

They are refering to the clearance of the drag link as it crosses over the top of the pass side leaf spring. Does your truck have an aftermarket crossover steering system?
As I recall 4 inch kits make crossover steering a little tight and clearances are close.
My guess is that you still have the push pull system, and your short drag link is connected to the driver side knuckle. The follks over at ORD are refering to the clearance issues with crossover steering. This steering style has a long drag link that connects the pitman arm to the pass side knuckle by placing the drag link over the top of the leaf spring, and connecting to a steering arm that bolts to the top of the pass side steering knuckle. A small block under the spring will decrease clearance and cause some issues with this design.
Here is a quick view of a cross over drag link
Image of connecting the drag link - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Here you can see that a taller spring pack, or that little zero rate block placed under the spring will and can cause issues.

 

No crossover steering so I belive I have the push pull system. Is that good? do they do ok with a front locker and large tires? It's looking at this point 39.5" is the max I can run. My plan is low and large a tire as I can fit to maintain steering and articulation. I will be off camber and on tight twisty trails. I want to sleeve the tie rod and leave it low but I can cut my losses and go high steer if I have to. I'm in a bind because I need to build it right and then leave it far away from my shop. I have a bad pinion bearing so I'm going to regear it to 5:38s while I'm in it then lock the front and spool the rear. I know this will test steering and suspension. Low buck is the plan but will spare no expense to avoid problems so far away. How good is the push pull steering on these rigs? I don't want hydro assist but would consider a small power steering pump pully and pump mods if you think the stock one is weak. So Is the push pull a good setup and is this setup powerfull enough to be usable? I don't need rock bugy strong but do need to turn a locked front end with 38-40" tires and need max droop or articulation. What do you think?

 

This will turn into a very good topic. I have been building for max articulation in a 1 ton for a while, and though it is difficult, it can be done. Nothing like hitting some trails and giant rocks with a full size. Love the look on the faces of the Jeep, and Yota guys when they see a full bodied 1 ton truck on thier trails.
Lets address the steering. The push pull system is plain bad for lifted trucks, or trucks that will experience very much flex. See that drag link is just too short, and contributes to poor articulation. Imagine a small traction bar that was just as short as that drag link. Does not sound like a good idea right? Well now look at how much that little drag link limits flex. Same idea here, and this idea is no good. As the driver side axle compresses and extends the length of the drag link must change to compensate, but since it is solid, it cant, so what is the only thing it can do? It can only move the steering wheel. At full flex, you will find that with max steering input, the best you can obtain is perfectly straight! Difficult enough to get one of these full sized rigs to turn at all, let alone trying to turn with limited steering. Not fun.
By converting to a crossover, the long drag link will encounter far less angle change, and be less effected by articulation. Bumpsteer is greatly reduced, and the articulation is not limited by the steering.
Now, if you do not intend on hitting giant boulders, then High steer is not necessary, and not even recommeneded on stock ford knuckles. These tend to break the tops off when combined with the steering forces applied to the tops of both knuckles.
The "hot ticket" is a crossover with a hydro assist placed on the stock location tie rod, and a saginaw pump with a large, very large cooler.
The hydro ram turns the wheels from the stock location at the knuckles, and the crossover steers from the top of the pass side knuckle only. Hydro assist takes all of the abuse and broken sector shafts are limited to almost nothing. Big hits are tough on components, but with hydro assist, you can rest a little easier and know that the box willnot tear off of the frame. (most of the time)
I am a little concerned about your 4 inches of lift. Not much room for a bunch of articulation here. That frame is still real close to the tops of the spring plates (assuming chevy style for ground clearance) and compression is very much limited. Short shackles, and 53" front springs also limit extension. That stock shackle angle does not allow for a whole bunch of droop.
Stock shock mounting locations are also a limiting factor.
Steering is the number one problem here.

 

Thanks. I can deal with bump steer and think I will just wait till the gears are in to get it on a ramp and just get it the best it can be. This is just going to be a truck used to build trails for an off road park in Raton NM so it just needs to work hard and not break stupid stuff. I'm also going to preserve it the best I can because of it being rare. I can appreciate what you have done to dial yours in. Most buy a lift kit and call it good. Bad plan. I built a jeep XJ with a 4.5" lift and BFG 35" Krawlers. I spend many hours dialing in spring rates ,shock valving and bumpstops ect ect. It has never been out done by lifed Rubicons on 37"s. I've allways said " Any redneck can jack one up and put big tires on it but it's the stuff you can't see that makes them perform." I'm actually sick of jeeps and is why I jumped on this F350. I'm out of my leage right now but hope to get it right without a whole lot of trial and error. Thanks for all the help!

 

Right on. This is a neat subject, and I enjoy having discusiions with it. These old trucks are pretty cool. We were having quite a discussion about this very subject last night at our local off road club meeting.
Someebody was driving next to me on the freeway, and noticed how much my truck's suspension moves while traveling on the road. This comment was made by another fullsize ford owner. He stated that while he felt like he was riding in a lumber wagon, he struggled to maintain freeway speeds (trying to keep up with my truck, and normal traffic) and was a little saddened to see that I was steering with one hand and very little effort.
My truck is a little "mushy", but very predictable. Little more tuning on the springs, and she should be just about right, then comes shock valving. I have been messing with different lengths, and am up to custom mounts and 14 inches of travel. Just about uses all of it when off road. Thats not bad for a one ton ride! I am pleased with it. Lots of trial and error though, with much emphasis on error. Guess thats part of the fun.
You rig shoud be fine on may trails (provided it can just plain fit on them) and while steering can become a pain after a while, it will not break, it will just have a limited turning radius. This may or may not be the most important thing just yet.
Good luck with your project, sounds like fun.

 

The drop push arm is so short that it binds at full droop and probably at full compression. No way can I reverse the springs and make this thing flex because it will shorten that arms working length further. I could reclock pitman arm and fool with it more but......
This what I did to max it's performance. I removed a leaf from the sky jacker 4" leaf pack to add flex. I lost 1/2" of height. I clearanced the drop push bar tie rod ends and pitman arm a little with the grinder so they won"t bind or bottom out on full droop or full compression. The break lines then became limiting straps so I removed the upper bracket and relocated them down on the frame sides. Shocks were checked for bottoming and came in 2" extra down travel when the axel is hanging. You need a little extra because when the other tire gets stuffed it forced the other tire down further. Mine will work OK.
Crossover and high steer would be money well spent. I'll look into it harder when and if I find my tires hit the cab mount and I need more room. Then I can gain the inch with out steering issues. Does any body know max tire size on a bone stock rig with only fender trimming? I mean the max that wont hit the cab mount during full flex and the wheels turned. I ask bone stock because with my modified softer leaf packs I want to get as much compression as I can without running long bumpstops or lifting. I removed the inner fender liner and will trim the fenders that are not clean anyway. I'm sure I will grind the cab mount about an inch or more also because it really is stought but sticks out right into the wheel well. What fits when tire is stuffed?

 

You have put some pretty good work into this already, and you can now see that the push pull system is a big limiting factor, but sounds as though you have a handle on it.
One little suggestion, is to lengthen the shackles a little. Yes you will change the caster some, but this change is a change in the right direction. It will slow the steering down a little,. but this is a compromise worth making. No real issues here. The added length will provide a little extra swing, and provide that little extra droop, especially under the (real world) forced articualtion scenareo.
Moving the brake lines is a good idea, since they run through the frame now, simply relocating them under the frame is easy, but be careful not to get them pinched under full compression.
Crossover might get a little difficult with your now even less clearance, and high steer combined with x-over will be even more difficult, but you see tha adbantages. Fortunately you have a front 60 already so this upgrade is a bolt on deal.
Spherical rod ends will provide some extra clearance, since the 2026 and 2027 chebby TRE's are so big. They take up quite a bit of space.
You could now gain that extra little bit of heigth lost by adding the zero rate (small block) and moving the axle foward. Since you gain a little heigth, and will be moving the axle foward, the drag link length will be approx the same.
A smal block can also be purchased for the steering arm..This will raise the arm, and help with the length issues. Not the best approach, but is effective with this style steering. Watch how much of a block you run. Tearing the tops of the knuckles off of ford knuckles is not uncommon. The added leverage is great, and these knuckles are subject to breakage.
As far as your cab mount, by re-locating the axle foward, and gaining a little heigth, you will gain clearance in this area, and may not have to cut too much.
I would imagine that you could clear a 36" or even a 37" tire as long as it was not too wide. This will also help with fender clearance.
Really sounds like you have a handle on this, and you are headed in the right direction. Have any pics yet?

 

on a chevy of the same era, you could use a 2wd arm and convert to crossover steering a little cheap, not sure if this hold true for the fords though

 

Just to clarify this:
Chevy (4x4 saginaw) boxes have a notched sector shaft and will not permit the use of a 2wd pitman arm at all, and this notch prevents the steering arm from being re-indexed.
Now the 78/9 ford box (4 bolt 4x4 F250) with power steering has splines all the way around and will permit the removal and re-installation of the arm every 90 degrees. This ford box will allow quick and easy crossover modification, but the saginaw box requires a complete 2wd box and dodge pitman arm (the 2wd chevy arms have a small ball joint built into in the end) to perform the same crossover conversion.
My link and pics above show the use of a saginaw 4 turn 16:1 2wd power steering box with dodge pitman arm.