where do the prices stop?
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,207
Likes: 1
From: Las vegas
Well befor they arbitrarily decided to jack the price of diesel up over $2 per galon since the time I bought my truck about six months ago and change I was able to live quite comfortably Now that I spend absolutely no extra money on bills and I'm living paycheck to pay check and can't aford to drive any where I'm not getting payed to be. I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one in this boat.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,220
Likes: 26
"Now that I spend absolutely no extra money on bills and I'm living paycheck to pay check and can't aford to drive any where I'm not getting payed to be."
Is that truck a business requirement or for pleasure? If it's not specifically required for keeping food/clothing/shelter then you don't "need" it. Either buy an expendable beater to save money or off the beast. I don't own anything I wouldn't chuck if I had to support "it" instead of it serving ME. I afford my fuel hogs by only using them when necessary.
Machines are nice but machines are expendable, and if it served me best I'd chuck every truck and motorcycle I own into the shredder.
Is that truck a business requirement or for pleasure? If it's not specifically required for keeping food/clothing/shelter then you don't "need" it. Either buy an expendable beater to save money or off the beast. I don't own anything I wouldn't chuck if I had to support "it" instead of it serving ME. I afford my fuel hogs by only using them when necessary.
Machines are nice but machines are expendable, and if it served me best I'd chuck every truck and motorcycle I own into the shredder.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,207
Likes: 1
From: Las vegas
Kinda hard to get rid of things your still paying off with out destroying your credit. And I have stoped driving my truck but gass is ridiculusly over priced as well And every thing that has to be shiped to the store also cost more. But thats enough bitching I couldn't expect you older people who have been out of school long enough to either moved up in pay enough or saved enough money to be able to aford to be raped at the pumps and like it to understand.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,455
Likes: 8
From: Williams Lake B.C.
I sugest a simple look at history!
It has happened since the dawn of time and will continue to do so till the end! The price of goods go up and the payroll stays the same......then the payroll goes up and the goods are steady for a while...then the cost of goods go up again and pays stays the same......It keeps going on and on in it's simple cycle! I do believe that is what is happening but this time it seems much worse then in the past.......and the reason for that- Too many things are happening in the economy at once to make the cycle not as noticeable as it normally would be!
As said here before- all goods that are needed for basic suvival and luxury are at a rising cost....that is rising too fast for the pay scale to catch up quick enough, the major markets in the country(housing, stocks, autos, transportation, airline, and so on) are on the down fall. The major issue now I thinkis a much bigger issue then most people realize!!!
The issue is where do we want to go with our nation as a whole? Do we want to take america back to the way it was when we were wholly independant and relied on no other nation in the world???? Or do we want to take this entire world to a major market where we all rely on each other???
I want an independant nation that relies on no one but itself, personally!
To me there is only one way to get there, We drill the western shale, EPA be darned, and we tap our own oil reserve to supply our nation first.....if there is left overs we keep a certain amount on reserve and the rest is sold to the world market. We hold the housing market responsible for their own stupidity and make them do away with any and all adjustable rate/balloon payment loans and put them on a fixed rate to stabalize the housing market and stop the mass of forclosures happening, we secure our boarders on all side completely!! You cross into our country illegally and your are considered a threat to national security....a felony punishable by death on the second offense...the first you are dropped back into your home nation and they can deal with you(as for mexico, if their gov is unwilling to punish their citizens for breaking international laws.....they could be banned for trade or imposed by military might((again!!)). The EPA must be controlled!!!!!!!!!! While I do beleive that we have to be responsible with our eco system.....being alive is much more important then the southeasternlywestern spotted polkadotted green footed horny goat weed toad bird's habitat on top of a major oil reserve! Last but not least, to better our nation for the future as a whole- any and all lobbyist groups are with held from any and all contributions to politics in general!!! Get your message out there all you want but don't hand a million dollars to a politician and say it's a campaign contribution when we all know your buying them a spot in major politics for your future political thoughts and wants!
I'll take the job if ya'll wanna give it to me but I will only do it with total control for the time period i'm there! Ohh, and I'm a person who believes the end justifie's the means!
It has happened since the dawn of time and will continue to do so till the end! The price of goods go up and the payroll stays the same......then the payroll goes up and the goods are steady for a while...then the cost of goods go up again and pays stays the same......It keeps going on and on in it's simple cycle! I do believe that is what is happening but this time it seems much worse then in the past.......and the reason for that- Too many things are happening in the economy at once to make the cycle not as noticeable as it normally would be!
As said here before- all goods that are needed for basic suvival and luxury are at a rising cost....that is rising too fast for the pay scale to catch up quick enough, the major markets in the country(housing, stocks, autos, transportation, airline, and so on) are on the down fall. The major issue now I thinkis a much bigger issue then most people realize!!!
The issue is where do we want to go with our nation as a whole? Do we want to take america back to the way it was when we were wholly independant and relied on no other nation in the world???? Or do we want to take this entire world to a major market where we all rely on each other???
I want an independant nation that relies on no one but itself, personally!
To me there is only one way to get there, We drill the western shale, EPA be darned, and we tap our own oil reserve to supply our nation first.....if there is left overs we keep a certain amount on reserve and the rest is sold to the world market. We hold the housing market responsible for their own stupidity and make them do away with any and all adjustable rate/balloon payment loans and put them on a fixed rate to stabalize the housing market and stop the mass of forclosures happening, we secure our boarders on all side completely!! You cross into our country illegally and your are considered a threat to national security....a felony punishable by death on the second offense...the first you are dropped back into your home nation and they can deal with you(as for mexico, if their gov is unwilling to punish their citizens for breaking international laws.....they could be banned for trade or imposed by military might((again!!)). The EPA must be controlled!!!!!!!!!! While I do beleive that we have to be responsible with our eco system.....being alive is much more important then the southeasternlywestern spotted polkadotted green footed horny goat weed toad bird's habitat on top of a major oil reserve! Last but not least, to better our nation for the future as a whole- any and all lobbyist groups are with held from any and all contributions to politics in general!!! Get your message out there all you want but don't hand a million dollars to a politician and say it's a campaign contribution when we all know your buying them a spot in major politics for your future political thoughts and wants!
I'll take the job if ya'll wanna give it to me but I will only do it with total control for the time period i'm there! Ohh, and I'm a person who believes the end justifie's the means!
Are you for real?
I guess we can keep our oil , lumber ,electricity,and water on our own side of the border then?
Maybe next time you need to drive to a Alaska you will have to go by boat instead of driving through Canada?
I hope you were joking?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,147
Likes: 0
From: Coweta,GA, GO DAWGS!!!!!!
Well, I hope to one day go to alaska but I would never drive. I'd fly then boat from washington state......And yes I'm very serious......certain gov agencies are restricting our nations economy from growing.
As far as garbage- I geuss you don't understand or know your history....but if you'll read about it you'll find out!
As far as keeping our nations resources in our own boarders......YES that is what should happen. I have no issues with the world market and selling for profit, but the issue here is kinda like the food issue with africa- We send millions of doolars worth of food to that continent every year and we have people starving in our own country cause they can't afford to buy it or get it.......To me it's simple- Take care of your own first and when they have what they need then consider helping others!!!......You know, simple CYA first!
As far as garbage- I geuss you don't understand or know your history....but if you'll read about it you'll find out!
As far as keeping our nations resources in our own boarders......YES that is what should happen. I have no issues with the world market and selling for profit, but the issue here is kinda like the food issue with africa- We send millions of doolars worth of food to that continent every year and we have people starving in our own country cause they can't afford to buy it or get it.......To me it's simple- Take care of your own first and when they have what they need then consider helping others!!!......You know, simple CYA first!
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 825
Likes: 2
From: SW Washington coast
I sugest a simple look at history!
It has happened since the dawn of time and will continue to do so till the end! The price of goods go up and the payroll stays the same......then the payroll goes up and the goods are steady for a while...then the cost of goods go up again and pays stays the same......It keeps going on and on in it's simple cycle! I do believe that is what is happening but this time it seems much worse then in the past.......and the reason for that- Too many things are happening in the economy at once to make the cycle not as noticeable as it normally would be!
As said here before- all goods that are needed for basic suvival and luxury are at a rising cost....that is rising too fast for the pay scale to catch up quick enough, the major markets in the country(housing, stocks, autos, transportation, airline, and so on) are on the down fall. The major issue now I thinkis a much bigger issue then most people realize!!!
The issue is where do we want to go with our nation as a whole? Do we want to take america back to the way it was when we were wholly independant and relied on no other nation in the world???? Or do we want to take this entire world to a major market where we all rely on each other???
I want an independant nation that relies on no one but itself, personally!
To me there is only one way to get there, We drill the western shale, EPA be darned, and we tap our own oil reserve to supply our nation first.....if there is left overs we keep a certain amount on reserve and the rest is sold to the world market. We hold the housing market responsible for their own stupidity and make them do away with any and all adjustable rate/balloon payment loans and put them on a fixed rate to stabalize the housing market and stop the mass of forclosures happening, we secure our boarders on all side completely!! You cross into our country illegally and your are considered a threat to national security....a felony punishable by death on the second offense...the first you are dropped back into your home nation and they can deal with you(as for mexico, if their gov is unwilling to punish their citizens for breaking international laws.....they could be banned for trade or imposed by military might((again!!)). The EPA must be controlled!!!!!!!!!! While I do beleive that we have to be responsible with our eco system.....being alive is much more important then the southeasternlywestern spotted polkadotted green footed horny goat weed toad bird's habitat on top of a major oil reserve! Last but not least, to better our nation for the future as a whole- any and all lobbyist groups are with held from any and all contributions to politics in general!!! Get your message out there all you want but don't hand a million dollars to a politician and say it's a campaign contribution when we all know your buying them a spot in major politics for your future political thoughts and wants!
I'll take the job if ya'll wanna give it to me but I will only do it with total control for the time period i'm there! Ohh, and I'm a person who believes the end justifie's the means!
It has happened since the dawn of time and will continue to do so till the end! The price of goods go up and the payroll stays the same......then the payroll goes up and the goods are steady for a while...then the cost of goods go up again and pays stays the same......It keeps going on and on in it's simple cycle! I do believe that is what is happening but this time it seems much worse then in the past.......and the reason for that- Too many things are happening in the economy at once to make the cycle not as noticeable as it normally would be!
As said here before- all goods that are needed for basic suvival and luxury are at a rising cost....that is rising too fast for the pay scale to catch up quick enough, the major markets in the country(housing, stocks, autos, transportation, airline, and so on) are on the down fall. The major issue now I thinkis a much bigger issue then most people realize!!!
The issue is where do we want to go with our nation as a whole? Do we want to take america back to the way it was when we were wholly independant and relied on no other nation in the world???? Or do we want to take this entire world to a major market where we all rely on each other???
I want an independant nation that relies on no one but itself, personally!
To me there is only one way to get there, We drill the western shale, EPA be darned, and we tap our own oil reserve to supply our nation first.....if there is left overs we keep a certain amount on reserve and the rest is sold to the world market. We hold the housing market responsible for their own stupidity and make them do away with any and all adjustable rate/balloon payment loans and put them on a fixed rate to stabalize the housing market and stop the mass of forclosures happening, we secure our boarders on all side completely!! You cross into our country illegally and your are considered a threat to national security....a felony punishable by death on the second offense...the first you are dropped back into your home nation and they can deal with you(as for mexico, if their gov is unwilling to punish their citizens for breaking international laws.....they could be banned for trade or imposed by military might((again!!)). The EPA must be controlled!!!!!!!!!! While I do beleive that we have to be responsible with our eco system.....being alive is much more important then the southeasternlywestern spotted polkadotted green footed horny goat weed toad bird's habitat on top of a major oil reserve! Last but not least, to better our nation for the future as a whole- any and all lobbyist groups are with held from any and all contributions to politics in general!!! Get your message out there all you want but don't hand a million dollars to a politician and say it's a campaign contribution when we all know your buying them a spot in major politics for your future political thoughts and wants!
I'll take the job if ya'll wanna give it to me but I will only do it with total control for the time period i'm there! Ohh, and I'm a person who believes the end justifie's the means!
True ... Prices have always gone up ... Wages have always gone up ... Maybe not at the same time or pace but they have ...
I can agree with a certain amount of patriotism/protectionism ... I feel that our border control is a bit lax as well as our policy concerning illegal aliens ...
As for drilling the shale ... It is not economically feasible right now to extract oil from shale ... And the E.P.A. does a fair job of keeping most of our drinking water fairly safe ... I like mine clear thank you very much ... And as for protecting various species, are you familiar with the saying "For the want of a nail, a war was lost" ? ...
I agree that lobbyists are a plague on our political system but they are just responding to the fact that politicians are willing to take the money in the first place ...
And food supplies ... Is it not some of our own farmers that have chosen to grow corn for fuel rather than food?
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
That argument that food costs are going up 40% due to the 5% increase in demand for ethanol production is really a flawed argument, oh and by the way only 20% of each individual plant is used for ethanol and the other 80% goes back into conventional corn production(foodstuffs, oils etc.).
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,207
Likes: 1
From: Las vegas
One of the major factors in food cost is the price of diesel. Farmers have to pay more for the diesel to run there equipment to grow it harvest it and take it to market, then truckers or trucking companies have to pay more for diesel to take it to the stores. The high price of diesel doesn't just afect people who drive diesels.
Of course there are also many other factors afecting the price of food than the price of diesel but it seems to me that it efects it on two fronts.
Of course there are also many other factors afecting the price of food than the price of diesel but it seems to me that it efects it on two fronts.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
Price of energy affects it more then just on those two fronts. It also affects it on the production of fertilizer as well. Price of energy(of just about every stage of production for ag. crops) and the world market demand are the biggest causes of inflated food prices especially since your having production problems in some farm areas(like aussies are having with their grain production). Blaming ethanol for raising food prices isn't kosher if your were to look at the math. I thank the grocer's union for being the biggest group supporting that delusion of ethanol and food prices.
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
not sure if this is true, but i had heard that the government pays some farmers to not farm all of their land, to keep from having a surplus and having a depression because the price for corn is almost free. we could be able to grow enough food to keep people fed, here and abroad, and still have corn for use of ethanol. there aren't as many "family farms" anymore, seems to be oversized commercial farms. they sell the crops overseas (burns alot of oil for the freighters to take across the pond)and then we buy crops from overseas (another bunch of fuel burned). that's why food is expensive, there's extra gas involved in its shipping, rather than buying from a local farmer 15 miles from you.
the u.s. is a wasteful nation. we use glass, metal, paper, plastic products. they say it is more expensive to recycle than to tap into more natural resources, and chunk all the garbage into landfills.
as far as the government and helping other countries before helping our own, i believe it. I made this observation, there was a natural disaster, might have been in china, can't remember the specifics. but we sent troops, food and aid of all kinds to them within a few hours. it took days for the government to step in and help New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina. and some help didn't show up at all.
the u.s. is a wasteful nation. we use glass, metal, paper, plastic products. they say it is more expensive to recycle than to tap into more natural resources, and chunk all the garbage into landfills.
as far as the government and helping other countries before helping our own, i believe it. I made this observation, there was a natural disaster, might have been in china, can't remember the specifics. but we sent troops, food and aid of all kinds to them within a few hours. it took days for the government to step in and help New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina. and some help didn't show up at all.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
It's true that the government pays farmers not to farm land, however, that has a timeframe on it and farmers don't have to renew it. The reason that you stated is not the reason that the government gives. I'm not saying one is right over the other, but that isn't what the government says why the pay farmers not to farm land.
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 443
Likes: 7
From: reno nevada
fuel prices
Been following this thread for a bit. I have a few thoughts. High fuel prices are a big problem. Not becasue I cant go fishing, but becasue of what it does to the trucking industry and the ripple effects on food etc.
Now my powerstroke is not my daily driver, it has allways been are 3rd to use for hunting, towing the Whaler, etc. I have done this mostly to keep from driving it into the ground. But the gas is high too and it hurts to fill the old Ranger and the wifes Tercel,even though they get good mpg.
I think the fuel cost will adjust some what, just like realestate. I dont feel it will ever be $1.50 a gallon again but it will have to corrrect some. Usage is down andwill keep going down. I think the only thing we can do now as consumers is use less. My truck will stay in the garage and the boat in the yard! I can afford fuel but it has become a mental thing for me.
Now i know fuel is supsudised in some asian countrys. But i dont think they can keep that up. Demand will have to drop. I talked to my brother inlaw in the Phillippines awhile back. When figureing the peso to dollar and liter to gallons there diesel fuel was exactly the same cost as i pay in Reno. Now how can someone in the PHillippines aford $4.69 per gallon of fuel? They can hardly afford rice much less that. The demand will fall and it should have some effect.
Good thread here thanks Joe
Now my powerstroke is not my daily driver, it has allways been are 3rd to use for hunting, towing the Whaler, etc. I have done this mostly to keep from driving it into the ground. But the gas is high too and it hurts to fill the old Ranger and the wifes Tercel,even though they get good mpg.
I think the fuel cost will adjust some what, just like realestate. I dont feel it will ever be $1.50 a gallon again but it will have to corrrect some. Usage is down andwill keep going down. I think the only thing we can do now as consumers is use less. My truck will stay in the garage and the boat in the yard! I can afford fuel but it has become a mental thing for me.
Now i know fuel is supsudised in some asian countrys. But i dont think they can keep that up. Demand will have to drop. I talked to my brother inlaw in the Phillippines awhile back. When figureing the peso to dollar and liter to gallons there diesel fuel was exactly the same cost as i pay in Reno. Now how can someone in the PHillippines aford $4.69 per gallon of fuel? They can hardly afford rice much less that. The demand will fall and it should have some effect.
Good thread here thanks Joe
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
With actual planting costs ( seed, fertilizer & fuel) probably less than 15% of market price, if a farmer is going broke its more likely poor business practices, weather or luck if he is not making money. Why would you think land and equipment prices have been soaring recently? Couldn't be IRS Tax rules for agriculture could it? Whats a Grassley?? hint: not a newly minted 3 dollar bill....
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
Your not in the Ag field are you? Planting costs amount to more then that especially since alot of farmers are having to do a second planting now(or they are claiming insurance on their fields right now). Planting costs are more along the lines of double of what your saying. Now for sure business practices do play a part and farmers aren't exactly the best at that, however don't underestimate planting costs especially since everything is now more costly then ever(however still not up to 70s numbers yet).
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Ag field?
Spent a few years back there as a Youngster in the early 50s'. I still visit corn country family now and then. I've noticed recent years that 2-3 sections is a small farm and I don't see much work done except on week ends...no 'B' John Deeres just big stuff!! Some things never change: complaining about the weather and not making any money... Tough isn't it when a farmer croaks worth maybe 20 mil... shure don't do that in town or in most small businesses. Lifes though, especially without a Ford, and than we head west!! 