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  #31  
Old 04-17-2008, 08:16 AM
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All the money Ford (and International) have spent on the 6.0 and 6.4 they should have spent getting the old reliable 7.3 into emmissions legal and wouldn't have had nearly the problems its made with the 6.0 and 6.4!!
These "new" diesels absolutely won't last as long as the 6.9-7.3 did....the 6.9 was used in Ford F250-F350 from '83 (I think) until the 7.3 was discontinued in the middle of 2003.
 
  #32  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:27 AM
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the 73 could not be made into compliance no matter what they did.
 
  #33  
Old 04-17-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Supercab View Post
All the money Ford (and International) have spent on the 6.0 and 6.4 they should have spent getting the old reliable 7.3 into emmissions legal and wouldn't have had nearly the problems its made with the 6.0 and 6.4!!
These "new" diesels absolutely won't last as long as the 6.9-7.3 did....the 6.9 was used in Ford F250-F350 from '83 (I think) until the 7.3 was discontinued in the middle of 2003.
I thought the powerstroke was a completely different beast then the idi's, which would mean the 6.9 was only essentially used until what, 93 or something?
 
  #34  
Old 04-17-2008, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by BowTieHatr View Post
the 73 could not be made into compliance no matter what they did.
actually, a small hydrogen generator apparently cleans up 7.3 combustion good enough for 2009 specs.

at the time, having to fill a water tank must have sounded like a stupid idea, now look.
 
  #35  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dustin1690 View Post
Wow another diesel why are they changing engines so fast the 6.4 just started this year
This is what Ford has always done and is one of the few weaknesses of the company.
 
  #36  
Old 04-18-2008, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by parkland View Post
actually, a small hydrogen generator apparently cleans up 7.3 combustion good enough for 2009 specs.

at the time, having to fill a water tank must have sounded like a stupid idea, now look.
never heard of such. they are using urea now for 2010 but it was untried technology up untill now.
 
  #37  
Old 04-18-2008, 08:19 AM
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That is NOT what FORD has always done. Ford changed from the 7.3 to the 6.0 because of emmissions standards. The 6.0 has an EGR and the 7.3 does not. And switched to the 6.4 for the same reason as well as the ULSD. The 5.9 would remain in the dodges except for the same reason.

I wouldn't say that Ford is the weakest company either.

Originally Posted by duffman77 View Post
This is what Ford has always done and is one of the few weaknesses of the company.
 
  #38  
Old 04-18-2008, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mnmwhit View Post
That is NOT what FORD has always done. Ford changed from the 7.3 to the 6.0 because of emmissions standards. The 6.0 has an EGR and the 7.3 does not. And switched to the 6.4 for the same reason as well as the ULSD. The 5.9 would remain in the dodges except for the same reason.

I wouldn't say that Ford is the weakest company either.
I would have to agree because ford is in the business to make money and if they cant meet emission standards then guess what no trucks run off the assembly line. If possible ford would still probably still be using the 7.3 or our beloved windsor and 385 series engines, but because the EPA has the power to say whether or not a vehicle can be produced based on emissions ford is forced, as is many manufactures, to meet the EPA standards. I am no tree huger or ravid enviorementalist but it is a good thing that the EPA is in place to minimize emissions as much as possible.
 
  #39  
Old 04-19-2008, 12:34 AM
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As far as meeting emmisions in 2010, there is not one diesel in the US that will meet it, starting in 2010 you will need to be adding UREA to the fuel to help it burn cleaner. This is already happening in Europe. So by Ford bringing technology over from Europe, hopefully Ford will be one of the first to offer the new emmisions earlier. Diesel technology is not only changing for the vehicle industry, but all markets. By 2010 all construction equipment will have to conform to current emmisions standards and fuel oil will have to do the same.
 
  #40  
Old 04-19-2008, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Chaosracing View Post
As far as meeting emmisions in 2010, there is not one diesel in the US that will meet it, starting in 2010 you will need to be adding UREA to the fuel to help it burn cleaner. This is already happening in Europe. So by Ford bringing technology over from Europe, hopefully Ford will be one of the first to offer the new emmisions earlier. Diesel technology is not only changing for the vehicle industry, but all markets. By 2010 all construction equipment will have to conform to current emmisions standards and fuel oil will have to do the same.
You don't add it to the fuel, there will be a separate tank and it injects the urea into the exhaust itself I do believe
 
  #41  
Old 04-19-2008, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Chaosracing View Post
As far as meeting emmisions in 2010, there is not one diesel in the US that will meet it, starting in 2010 you will need to be adding UREA to the fuel to help it burn cleaner. This is already happening in Europe. So by Ford bringing technology over from Europe, hopefully Ford will be one of the first to offer the new emmisions earlier. Diesel technology is not only changing for the vehicle industry, but all markets. By 2010 all construction equipment will have to conform to current emmisions standards and fuel oil will have to do the same.

Cummins has engines that already meet the 2010 emission standards.
International has announced they will meet the 2010 standards without urea.
 
  #42  
Old 04-19-2008, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mnmwhit View Post
That is NOT what FORD has always done. Ford changed from the 7.3 to the 6.0 because of emmissions standards. The 6.0 has an EGR and the 7.3 does not. And switched to the 6.4 for the same reason as well as the ULSD. The 5.9 would remain in the dodges except for the same reason.

I wouldn't say that Ford is the weakest company either.
Really, how many different V8 engines (gas) has Ford had since 1955 and remember there is a new one slated in the next few years again, chevy has had 3. GM is on thier second diesel, Dodge still on thier first, this is Ford's third (6.4 & 6.0 are really the same block) already. Ford changes thier engines most often of the big three and it is definately not a good thing.

My comments are not meant to start a pissing match over which is the better company, GM has thier problems as well. It is just a observation that Ford has a historical pattern of running away from engines after a few years while chevrolet evolves its engines from year to year. Go and compare parts on a 351C to a 350 chevy, which cost more and which were harder to find. Changing engines all the time is not good for the consumer when they need to chase parts after an engine that has gone out of production 5 or more years ago.
 
  #43  
Old 04-19-2008, 08:55 AM
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OK, so if Ford is swapping to a new engine design. Whats the odds that its the Cummins 6.7 diesel? It comes at a similar time that Ford and Navistar arent getting along and Dodge is supposed to be coming with a Mercedes diesel when there Cummins contract ends?
 
  #44  
Old 04-19-2008, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by duffman77 View Post
Really, how many different V8 engines (gas) has Ford had since 1955 and remember there is a new one slated in the next few years again, chevy has had 3. GM is on thier second diesel, Dodge still on thier first, this is Ford's third (6.4 & 6.0 are really the same block) already. Ford changes thier engines most often of the big three and it is definately not a good thing.

My comments are not meant to start a pissing match over which is the better company, GM has thier problems as well. It is just a observation that Ford has a historical pattern of running away from engines after a few years while chevrolet evolves its engines from year to year. Go and compare parts on a 351C to a 350 chevy, which cost more and which were harder to find. Changing engines all the time is not good for the consumer when they need to chase parts after an engine that has gone out of production 5 or more years ago.
I actually agree with you more so with the gasser than the diesels! Ford does do that, but not with the diesel engines-historically. The 7.3 was around for many years! I thought I read though that the 6.4 has more or larger head bolts......Is it just a variation of the 6.0? Don't know?

As far a gas motors..... You hit the nail on the head for sure! I hated back in 1996-1997 when they did that modular engine crap. The 5.0 could have been bored or stroked and or modified instead of replacing it with that modular crap! In my opinion the 5.0 and 5.8 were stronger motors than the 5.4 and 4.6! GM's still using variations of it's original 283, 327, 350 etc... Yeah the headds changed on the Vortec motors but they have successfully retained their motors for many many years. The 8.1 motor was just a bored and stroked 7.4. I know the 8.1 is no longer available now though... Sure does make it easier for consumers who like to do their own repairs! Parts are plentiful and usually in stock and easy to find, and cheaper! The really sad thing is the Ford motors have been behind in HP for many years too! What was wrong with the 460? Port fuel injected and updated ignition system and intake and exhaust could have been one hell of a motor today! V-10- I think they were trying to keep up with the Joneses (Dodge's V-10.) since Dodge had come out with a V-10.

The only motor I really miss is the 5.0! I had a GT mustang (1986) that thing was fast. The newer 4.6 motors just do not impress me at all! They seem like they lack the low end torque of the modular motors! And the 5.4 F-150's can't even get out of their own way-not impressed with those weak engines either! 300hp is a very generous rating for that motor!! Doesn't drive like a 300 hp motor at all!!
 
  #45  
Old 04-19-2008, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sledhead999 View Post
OK, so if Ford is swapping to a new engine design. Whats the odds that its the Cummins 6.7 diesel? It comes at a similar time that Ford and Navistar arent getting along and Dodge is supposed to be coming with a Mercedes diesel when there Cummins contract ends?

Not at all likely. Ford does not seem to have any interest in anything other than V8 diesels for their pickups and vans. Fords been working on a 6.7 V8 of their own. Also not likely that Dodge is going to dump Cummins. The Mercedes diesel rumors were common when it was DaimlerChrysler but Daimler has sold off the vast majority of their holdings in Chrysler so the chances appear slimmer than ever.
 

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