Fitch fuel catalyst
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 113
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From: Ninilchik, Alaska
Learath, its all a matter of my opinion. No scientific research or comparisions done. Just some of my thoughts on the subject. Some through experience. Sorry I came across critical, not my intentions. I think anything can use improvement...especilly me.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2006
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no worry's man. it would take a lot more than critical comments to ruffle my feathers. besides i can see what you mean, and i have never seen a point in getting miffed in being corrected if i was wrong in some way.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
Likes: 15
From: Nutter Fort, WV
There is a topic running up in the Expedition forum about hydrogen generation systems.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...nerator-3.html
Even though they cost a bit more, on the order of 1000 dollars for a 7.3 motor sized unit, I think that has much more potential than a fuel catalyst dumped in the fuel tank.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...nerator-3.html
Even though they cost a bit more, on the order of 1000 dollars for a 7.3 motor sized unit, I think that has much more potential than a fuel catalyst dumped in the fuel tank.
Last edited by Dave Sponaugle; Mar 9, 2008 at 01:22 PM.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
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From: Campbell River, B.C.
Theres one on the 7.3L powerstroke forum too. It is possible to buy the generators outright from several online sources, but with a little effort they are simple enough to make from scratch.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...002-7-3-a.html
Jury's still out on wether it works or not, and some think its a violation of the laws of physics because there are some who claim to be able to run an engine on only the generator (which I do not believe). But if propane can work as a fuel catalyst for diesel, I see no reason why a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen wouldn't work at least as well.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...002-7-3-a.html
Jury's still out on wether it works or not, and some think its a violation of the laws of physics because there are some who claim to be able to run an engine on only the generator (which I do not believe). But if propane can work as a fuel catalyst for diesel, I see no reason why a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen wouldn't work at least as well.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
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From: Nutter Fort, WV
I have and am still reading the one you posted in your link.
I have a page to go yet, but I am going to post some observations at the end if they are not addressed in the next page of reading.
I see several facts that are stated, but overlooked at the same time.
I have a page to go yet, but I am going to post some observations at the end if they are not addressed in the next page of reading.
I see several facts that are stated, but overlooked at the same time.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
Likes: 15
From: Nutter Fort, WV
I see this as the same as propane fumigation with one big difference.
After my experiments I know propane in small amounts can increase the MPG on my engine.
I also know if I figure in the cost of the propane, the increase in MPG is equal to the cost of the propane, so no savings are realized.
I also know at heavier applications of propane, more power is also possible.
But in that application the cost of the fuel and propane just increase the cost per mile to operate.
Now the big question is how much hydrogen/oxygen is needed to burn the fuel that all engines exhaust because of slow flame spread in the cylinder?
I will be building one of these shortly to see what happens.
After my experiments I know propane in small amounts can increase the MPG on my engine.
I also know if I figure in the cost of the propane, the increase in MPG is equal to the cost of the propane, so no savings are realized.
I also know at heavier applications of propane, more power is also possible.
But in that application the cost of the fuel and propane just increase the cost per mile to operate.
Now the big question is how much hydrogen/oxygen is needed to burn the fuel that all engines exhaust because of slow flame spread in the cylinder?
I will be building one of these shortly to see what happens.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 113
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From: Ninilchik, Alaska
How does this device they make the Hydrogen/ Oxygen?
Do they have a seperate tank of O2 and a seperate tank of H? Like the space shuttle.
From what I remember in chemistry class by adding electricity to water you can "break" apart the Hydrogen molecules from the Oxygen molecules. Doing this can be quite explosive!
Perhaps I should read the links, eh?
Do they have a seperate tank of O2 and a seperate tank of H? Like the space shuttle.
From what I remember in chemistry class by adding electricity to water you can "break" apart the Hydrogen molecules from the Oxygen molecules. Doing this can be quite explosive!
Perhaps I should read the links, eh?
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
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From: Campbell River, B.C.
Just read your post on the other thread Dave, looks like you have your next mod in the works..
The auto ignition point of hydrogen is over 900F, so nothing short of a spark, or fuel chamber ignition will ignite it.
I have a feeling that the extra Oxygen is also playing a role in this situation.
The auto ignition point of hydrogen is over 900F, so nothing short of a spark, or fuel chamber ignition will ignite it.
I have a feeling that the extra Oxygen is also playing a role in this situation.
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Senior User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 113
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From: Ninilchik, Alaska
This might not be ethical but I thought of purchasing one of the smaller cheaper units from http://savefuel.ca/oxy-hydrogen/ and install it in my wife's rig. They seem to look well built. Before the install figure out how this thing is made, what makes it tick, and make a larger one for my 7.3L. Forgo the trial and error faze of the development.
On second thought it would be unethical even if this guy is committing highway robbery. I think I 'll do it in my shop and if nothing else give the kids a little course in chemistry....and not try to blow myself up.
On second thought it would be unethical even if this guy is committing highway robbery. I think I 'll do it in my shop and if nothing else give the kids a little course in chemistry....and not try to blow myself up.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
Likes: 15
From: Nutter Fort, WV
Well I had a not much sleep kind of night last night, my knees were killing me.
So as I sat there waiting for the Alieve to kick in I was thinking about all the different things they were wanting to do in the Stroke thread.
On a turbo engine, I have figured out how to do everything they were wanting to do, but using a totally different approach.
After reading several other websites last evening the number I kept seeing as the autoingnition temp for hydrogen was close to 1100 degrees.
So it looks like the fuel will actually be igniting the hydrogen, but then the hydrogen flash should spread the flame instantly through all the fuel in the cylinder.
The oxygen would be icing on the cake for more complete combustion of the fuel.
So as I sat there waiting for the Alieve to kick in I was thinking about all the different things they were wanting to do in the Stroke thread.
On a turbo engine, I have figured out how to do everything they were wanting to do, but using a totally different approach.
After reading several other websites last evening the number I kept seeing as the autoingnition temp for hydrogen was close to 1100 degrees.
So it looks like the fuel will actually be igniting the hydrogen, but then the hydrogen flash should spread the flame instantly through all the fuel in the cylinder.
The oxygen would be icing on the cake for more complete combustion of the fuel.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
Likes: 3
From: Campbell River, B.C.
Originally Posted by Dave Sponaugle
Well I had a not much sleep kind of night last night, my knees were killing me.
So as I sat there waiting for the Alieve to kick in I was thinking about all the different things they were wanting to do in the Stroke thread.
On a turbo engine, I have figured out how to do everything they were wanting to do, but using a totally different approach.
After reading several other websites last evening the number I kept seeing as the autoingnition temp for hydrogen was close to 1100 degrees.
So it looks like the fuel will actually be igniting the hydrogen, but then the hydrogen flash should spread the flame instantly through all the fuel in the cylinder.
The oxygen would be icing on the cake for more complete combustion of the fuel.
So as I sat there waiting for the Alieve to kick in I was thinking about all the different things they were wanting to do in the Stroke thread.
On a turbo engine, I have figured out how to do everything they were wanting to do, but using a totally different approach.
After reading several other websites last evening the number I kept seeing as the autoingnition temp for hydrogen was close to 1100 degrees.
So it looks like the fuel will actually be igniting the hydrogen, but then the hydrogen flash should spread the flame instantly through all the fuel in the cylinder.
The oxygen would be icing on the cake for more complete combustion of the fuel.
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 597
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You get water (and CO2) from burning diesel, so I'm not sure how much difference that would make.
I'd join in and start experimenting, but my truck is 1500 miles away right now.
Sometimes I wish I'd been a mechanic rather than an engineer so I wouldn't have to be in California just to have a job.
I'd join in and start experimenting, but my truck is 1500 miles away right now.
Sometimes I wish I'd been a mechanic rather than an engineer so I wouldn't have to be in California just to have a job.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,627
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From: West Valley Utah
I'm sure these engines would benefit from a bit more moisture.
I know on a cool night with a light rain my rig always ran quieter, smoother and had more power pulling hills. I'm sure DaveS remembers from his trucking days, those kind of nights where the engine just sounded better and had more power.
BTW....NO it was not from anything we smoked LOL!!!!
I know on a cool night with a light rain my rig always ran quieter, smoother and had more power pulling hills. I'm sure DaveS remembers from his trucking days, those kind of nights where the engine just sounded better and had more power.
BTW....NO it was not from anything we smoked LOL!!!!
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
Likes: 3
From: Campbell River, B.C.
Originally Posted by mistakenID
I'm sure these engines would benefit from a bit more moisture.
I know on a cool night with a light rain my rig always ran quieter, smoother and had more power pulling hills. I'm sure DaveS remembers from his trucking days, those kind of nights where the engine just sounded better and had more power.
BTW....NO it was not from anything we smoked LOL!!!!
I know on a cool night with a light rain my rig always ran quieter, smoother and had more power pulling hills. I'm sure DaveS remembers from his trucking days, those kind of nights where the engine just sounded better and had more power.
BTW....NO it was not from anything we smoked LOL!!!!
The best MPG calculations I ever got was when it was cool and damp outside (drove through mild foggy patches). The best result was in late september with a mild mist and a cold front had promptly ended summer, so the fuel grade was probably still summer blend. Cruise control was set to 70 MPH, and the truck returned 22 MPG (canuck gallons). It also seemed to burn rather clean and have a little extra power on many of the hills. Powertrain setup was 6.9 N/A, C6 tranny, 3.08 gears, and ram air intake.
Driving in the rain always cost me MPG because of increaced wind drag, and rolling resistance.