hey guys, ive been on the hunt for the past few weeks trying to find a nice 97 powerstroke truck. but havent had much luck yet, and so far im almost glad :S i drove by the pump the other day and noticed the price of diesel here is 3.65 a gallon... i in no way could afford to fill 35+ gallons of fuel at that cost. so i started to try and read up on waste vegetable oil and biodeisel, ive read they are two different fuels right? i can get the WVO pretty easily here, and so my next concern was modifications that have to be done to the truck to run it, some places say just pore it in and others say you have to "mod" out the fuel system a little, what is your guys opinions on all that? i have a million questions in regards to this, but ill keep to a minimum hehe. but my next question is, i would like to mod out my truck a little you know the typical stage 2's turbos things of that nature to give me more power, will WVO support high horespower? by that im talking maybe 400-ish... and if i ran WVO can i just put reg numb 2 in when i want? and my last one... with the WVO ive read about different degrees at wich it gells. and well would i be able to run it all year round? where i live now it probably never gets below the 20's at the coldest point. but i may be living in denver in an upcomming winter and it gets colder than that there... if gelling is an issue is there an addative i can put in to keep it flowing right? thanks guys again sorry for the length
gt

 

Big diff b/w the two
Bio you make the mod to your garage and spend the money on a filtering system at home
WVO you make the mod to your truck and spend about the same as Bio, but bio costs more to make and in the long run will cost you more.
WVo you can collect anywhere.
You MUSt mod your truck to heat the WVO in order for it to work. Bio you need to add chemicals which can be dangerous and very flamable if not handled correctly.
WVO you just filter and heat it up.

But both require for you to collect wast veggie oil (WVO).
a website with FAQs and answers to questions is goldenfuelsystems.com
I have one of their systems in my truck and love it. Truck does awesome on WVO.

They will also install it for you at a cost, but it is warrantied.

 

I am in process of getting a biodiesel project up and running. both have their perks. No matter which fuel you use you can still go back to #2. With WVO you have to have 2 tanks which works great with our trucks. you need to start up and shut down on WVO. Mainly because most WVO kits use coolant to heat the fuel lines and the WVO tank. The WVO must be up to temp before you can use it. I think 160* is the minimum temp. If you do short trips like I do that causes a proble with WVO. 75% of my driving is short trips where I would never get to use the WVO and still be burning #2.

Biodiesel does cost more. I haven't figured out exactly how much my processor is gonna cost but I think $1000 will be more than enough. Then I am hoping my production costs will be around $1 a gallon but they could be $1.50 a gallon. Methanol prices are the biggest cost in making BD. It requires 20-22% by volume to make BD. Many are paying $4-5 a gallon for methanol.

Here is a great site to find out more about both WVO and BD
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums

Both will do fine with bigger power

 

My appleseed processor cost me about $60 to build. Check out localb100.com. And Journeytoforever.org I found everthing that I needed to set up and operate and much much more on these two sites. And just this past summer I was able to find a supplier that can get me drums of methanol at $2.50/gallon. As you said Tim, that's the largest ongoing expense. I'm always looking for ways to cut the cost. I don't know if you have local depots for these guys, but check out Brentagg and Univar. They're both industrial chemical suppliers. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks Dave. My intial plan was to buy the Appleseed kit from B100 and I still may but last night I was looking at the GL one day process and how Graham has his processor built. I might look into that. I am using my tax return money to pay or this and would piece it together but I have been TALKING about BD for 4 years now. I am ready to make something happen!! I have lots of figuring to go thru in the next week before my check gets here.

Dave do you water wash? Have you visited the Infopop forum?

 

Im currently building a BD processor...
while you can get WVO free, you have to mod your truck...
BD runs just like #2, if properly made.
I've heard a few ugly stories of cars in cold weather where the operator forgot to switch back to #2 before shutdown, so im going with BD.
plus, when you're only paying $1 or so for your fuel, who's to complain?
Dan

 

Both options are viable and good. I want to make bio and run veggie. I have two factory tanks and thought of putting 100%bio in one and #2 in the other. Start up right away on #2 then switch to Bio and then switch to veggie. It just keeps getting cheaper.
With WVO I have a brake line pump for emergencies and spare filters. This allows me to change out wherever I am. I accidently left the truck on WVO one night for 12 hours while at work in 30deg. temps. came out and it started right up. I immediately switched back to #2 and then had to change the filters. I have never been stranded from WVO.

 

BD still has cold weather issues. I have made a few 1 liter batches with my oil source and put them outside. They were fine in freezing temps but if I put them in the freezer they gel. Much of it depends on where you live. Here in michigan I am guessing I will still have to blend #2 or kero with the BD in winter. I am hope for 80% BD and 20% dino.

 

I was thinking of using an heat exchanger to it. It would be quite elaborate and probably not worth it. Maybe a mix would be better. How much Power service would it take I wonder instead of #2? Would it be cheaper?

 

There are some antigel additves made just for BD. I haven't gotten any real answers from people about them yet. I will be doing alot of freezer testing before I do much cold weather BD straight. I will also have test jars outside near my truck so that each morning I can look at the BD and know what is going on in my tank.

 

I am going with biodiesel; just ordered the cone tanks and pumps last night. I don't personally like the idea of having to switch tanks back and forth, it doesn't work for short runs, and for true cost, you have to figure in the amount of $3.53 (here, today) #2 that you have to run for short trips and cleaning out the system.

I am finding that methanol is less cost when you buy it by the barrel and if you check some of the forums, you will find ways to easily economize methanol use. I.e. a condensor that uses your reactor to distill the methanol out of the glycerine. The newest process is to use some old glycerine to do an initial reaction in the WVO, which uses most of the methanol trapped in the glycerine. This reduces the amount of methanol you need for the final reaction.

There are also some great places out there with cheap components that are not taxed by use of the word bio-diesel.

 

Yeah I finally called the place that I will be getting my methanol and they aren't a high volume dealer and have a 1000 gallon bulk tank so meth is only $3.10 a gallon. I will buy at least 2 barrels. At that cost I should be about $.75 per gallon for BD not including time or electric. No too bad! It will save me about $90 a week.

 

there are cold weather issues with both, bio has to me thinned with dino in cold weather, i think 20/80 below 20F. you cannot run straight bio in cold without heating the tank. here are some excellant sites, first one i think is the best, lots of good info. make sure and check the thread on the centrifuge by Diesel Craft or just go to www.dieselcraft.com.
enjoy.
www.dancingrabbit.org, click on biodiesel, click on dissussion board
www.biodieselcommunity.org
www.fryertofuel.hypermart.net

 

Fortunately I live near the coast in GA. We have a new biodiesel plant making about 12,000 gallons a month who is 80 miles inland. One of the owners I talked with says they run it 100% year round.

As a side note, some reading in the biodiesel forums indicates that there are already lakes of glycerine from the larger plants because there is only so much demand for glycerine.

 

Disposal of glycerine is one major hurdle to get over for sure especailly for the homebrewer. Mine will have the methanol recovered then some made into soap and not real sure what the rest will used for.