Has anyone went the E85 route with their FE big block ? Since i rebuilt my 410 and obviously have raised compression i am leaning on going the 85 percent alcohol route . Now to find an alternative lined fuel tank , fuel pump , carb? and fuel line and ?

I wonder if many who say their mpg went down have lower compression engines and maybe too cool a running engine for the alcohol since it does burn cooler and thus less power like they say . Also makes me wonder what kind of compression flex fuel vehicles have if those can switch between regular and alcohol fuels .

Just tossing this idea around . Dont know if its been tried with a FE engine .

 

Well you have alot of that right...I dont personally have any experience with E85, I think its alot of Hype and was supposed to be cheaper to make...inwhich its not...

I think the newer car that are able to run both...the computer detects the diffrence in the fuel and adjusts the timing accordingly? Just a guess? But..

And a Friend that ran it for about a year in his 395" FE in a 67 Fairlane...went back to running 93 here in the South...He said his foot was always in it trying to get the same power out of it..So inwhich in the long run ..cost him more at the pump making more fill ups..Besides the whole system change over....and he was running about 10.5 to 1 CR... with Iron heads..and it still didnt generate enough heat....

Just an opinion of what I have read..and a bud that tried it... But I have heard some just love it???

RJ

 

Yes, someone has. But I am not he. Look for RustyF100'70. He is running it in a 390 with a holley projection system. A Holley carb will work as well if you make a few changes. I haven't tried it in any of my FEs yet, but ran it in my '90 thunderbird, 3.8 fuel injected V6- the car didn't seem to know the differance. Same thing in my wifes '91 buick regal, also 3.8 fuel injected, car didn't know the differance. To run it in my four stroke lawn mower, it was okay in really hot weather and then less happy when it was cooler. I think there is an awful lot of misinformation out there regaurding ethanol. I really don't care for the 'flex fuel' cars that are currently offered, they are just regular gasoline models with a wide band oxygen sensor. There are some other minor differances as well, but they don't have enough compression to make the best use of ethanol's detonation resistance. Ethanol does not burn 'less efficiently' or have 'less power' than gasoline. But from watching several builds, most guys don't have enough compression to utilize E85 to its best. I don't think you need a lined fuel tank or anything special. But you will want a slightly richer mixture than gasoline and a healthy ignition system- a stock duraspark would be fine. To get the best E85 has to offer, I think most guys are just not building enough compression. Ideally, 12 to 1 or more would seem the best to shoot for, unless you have a really big cam that bleeds a lot of pressure, and then you'll want more. The 10 1/2 to 1 example in the fairlane just isn't enough. What pistons did you use in your 410 build, and what heads are you useing ? A 410 with flattops should be able to get above 11 1/2 to 1 without to much trouble.....DinosaurFan, not at his Dad's, but on his son's computer....

 

Well Dino as usual I will agree with some of what you said.. I remember back when running the Altered.....alot of of the guys were running an alky mix..But also being on an injected motor and it worked for them with alot higher compression....As you had mentioned... But of course it wasnt E85 at that time...lol...

And it would also depend on the Cam , cylinder bleed off, and timing... too.. But what the He...double ..tooth picks happens if you cant find an E85 station? and your running a 12 to 1 CR motor.....I wouldnt want to take that chance...with a few grand in the motor....LOL...My money is too hard to make....

I mean you can run a Top Fuel dragster on regular gas...But dont dare put your foot in it....It will run......But not for long....Because of the heat build up....When My shop was open..Many moons back....we use to do alot of work on a friends digger...and we had on occation fired it up on High test..at that time Richfield 104....Arco out west, just to set the timing....after are work was done,and then flushed the system and called Service center to come and get it... But alot of things are so far advanced now days..I cant keep up with it all...

I just try to this day to use a little common sense..and dont like hanging my money out on the edge...at my age I cant afford it...LOL...

RJ

 

well what concerns me is the price at the pump since there was about a .60 cent difference i noticed , and on change2E85.com the guy says anything below 1980 was not made to use alcohol in the fuel systems ...Unprotected steel if there is moisture will rust ... Since i live in the colder climate where condersation can be drawn into the fuel system i am leary of useing my fuel tank for E85 . It might be necessary to even use regular fuel to start a vehicle in colder climate it looks like .
I used the recommended silvolite pistons for a 410 build and there sure wasnt much gap left on top at TDC .

 

Well depending on chamber size (CC) and gasket thickness (compressed) and how far down in the hole the flat of the piston sits from the deck..and depending on cylinder bleed off from the cam....

All of these are un-knowns at this time..so its really hard to say how your build will react to E85 fuel..... Thats the Best I can do.....without knowing all the particulars....because it all counts... JMO..

RJ

 

Don't they make sealants for the inside of the tank? I remember one of those hot-rod TV shows doing it to something.... They mix it (epoxy?), pour it in, and turn the tank all sorts of ways until it's completely coated inside. I can't imagine, with today's E10 being all over the place, that it wouldn't be alcohol resistant and cure the corrosion problem at the same time. (remember "gasahol" ??? That's E10)

DinosaurFan mentioned it, but let's not forget cam timing.

A cam that is recommended for, say, 10.5:1 compression on 93 octane gas can be used at 11.5 or 12:1 with E85 (without changing cam timing). I'm estimating, and in no way should you think I am recommending those numbers. I have no idea. But my point is, that with E85, the cam choice based on compression is not the same as with straight gasoline. "What you can get away with" in terms of dynamic compression changes.

 

Well Art thats what I'am talking about... there's to many un-knowns on his motor....I know RustyF100 lives in Iowa...or the dakota's,and it get cold as hell there also...I'am not saying that it cant be done....But at what cost? Is it going to be worth it at the pumps for the life of the vehicle ?

and just like gasoline.....E85 is going to go with supply and demand..and it wont get any cheaper...because it costs more to make...than Gas.....

Just like with the Hi-bryd cars..a buddy of mine bought one of the first years ago out in SoCal... and wrote me about a year back... and it cost him 10K to replace the battery pack....now was it really worth paying 35K for the car and in 5 years putting another 10K into it??? and the car is a plastic POS.....

I drove it when I went out to my Dads funeral....and I wouldnt have given you a dime for the car... anyway off topic... We are going to be dependend on fossil fuel for years to come..rather we like it or not.....

I worked for Swann foods for a couple of years when Mr. Swann many years ago developed the Propane conversion for the gas engine....in-which he was very proud of...and I did the fleet here in SW , VA...change over...and the trucks turned into pigs... and the driver were always bitching about them..... But Mr. S..had bought his own Propane plant and it was a good way for him to save money... We had dodge's, fords ,and Gm trucks in the fleet and they were all pigs..

But On a Happy note..they kept the refer box frozen on the trucks!!! LOL.. JMO..

RJ

 

Who cares, it's cool!!!

I know all the arguments for and against E85 - they can be discussed in the alternative fuels forum on this site.

But hey, it would be cool just to be running something different.

I'd love to play with it on a twin-turbo V10, that's for sure... someday.

 

Kurt's username was Rusty70f100. That might make the searching easier. His 390 ran Holley Projection, and I think around 9.5-10:1 CR. E85 is about 105 octane, so you could run as much as 12:1 with the right cam. I also remember him say a carb needs to run a lot richer, but I forget how much.

 

Haven't run it in an FE, but we do run it in a Big Block stroker engined drag car....Well, sort of....we actually hop it up to E-90. It did require a couple jet sizes larger and makes plug reading more difficult (just like methanol does) but when the sponsor who puts the $$$$$ in the car wants the car running on it, I like it a lot!!!!!!!!!

 

I believe it was Rusty70f100 that gave me his specs on a 410 build but i didnt go with the cam he said he used . Im sure my build isnt the same anyhow .
That was about 5 years ago .

If the price of e85 stays below the other fuels i would be useing it but first i have to be able to run it then convince myself its worth while with little power loss . When i do get my ducks in a row to use it i will post again .

WOWZERS just ran across spark plugs for e85 engines ,,,,, 25. each
suppose to really lite up more than a regular plug and built diferent too

 

I'd say with oil at $100.00 a barrel, the alternative fuels will start becoming more attractive, and everything will start getting better for using it.

IMHO The industry has had to wait because gas was still too cheap and buyers wouldn't switch.



John

 

The whole problem with E85 is that we have people starving in the US and world wide. We do not need to be turning food to fuel unless it's waste. Beside if this country was to convert all farmland to corn we would only beable to supply <5% of our demand. All it did was drive up the cost of other goods and put money in the pocket of farmers. Besides it does not burn as clean as reg gas.

 

blue, I have to take issue with this, "Where are the starving people in the US"? There are no pockets of unfed people between our shores. We ship millions of tons to food around the world to help those in need.

I do agree that the corn is not a very good fuel source, it costs too much to produce, but we are just getting started with alternative fuels.


John