Oh Matt. Matt, MAtt.... Have you not been listening....



I do have one thing to say (rare) BUT here it is....


I had a 1966 Mustang convertible and I would show it all up and down the east coast. I loved that car like I love my X and the x is the first vehicle I've felt that way about in a lonnnng time. So that's that.

I discovered cars with some real car enthusiast and feel I've been educated in cars by one of the best.We are talking some time ago but back when I had a 1974 Mustang II (Dry heaving) I thought that was " THE CAR" , My graduation from high school present.. Now I could take a motorcycle apart and put it back together like nobody but this car thing was all new to me.
Lesson 1 from Dad- You don't drive it until you can change a tire.
So, easy enough, did that- can I drive now?...
Nope-
Wheres the oil dipstick
The distributor
The plugs
The timing belt (chain)in those days)
The water pump

Ok so your getting the idea about how I learned to respect and take care of a car!
Thanks Dad.......

So in walks my friend Tom Arrington

I meet this guy (friend) who has a 1967 mustang,from Cali ,orange GT350, well I was all intrigued.. THis car gave me goose bumps, a car enthusiast was born..
He teaches me about Fords, we go back to his house on 7 acres, I walk into a 10 car garage that is set up complete with Mobile gas pump and anything else your heart desired.. I now call this place heaven.....
Inside -ANYTHING that Ford ever did was in there!!! From a parts counter from an old Ford dealer to the wood blocks Ford sold from the leftover wood from the Woody's.
Everywhere I turned there was stuff....
The cars ohhhhh the cars and his dad's old ford truck.....

So I get the bug and take about 2 years and find "the car " I still miss that mustang, all the work and CLEANING we/I did to get it ready for show......

The best education I could ever have had (tom) and taking two years to find "blue" I learned a lot!!!! We went from car show to car show, swap meets (Carlisle Pa my favorite!) and friends I met, I wish I could do it again!!!!!

So I know what CCCA is all about
I know what these guys are saying

But I will always remember what this friend told me ...

"You are enthusiastic about what nostalgia is for you, your idea of classic is defined by your age"

So true!

I miss my friend!!!!!!!


Ok, I'm done......
Beth

 

My thread has taken an interesting turn. I'll throw in my "classic" thoughts. I grew up on a 30 acre ranch with a Dad that was a "car guy". We had a shop that was bigger than our house complete with air lift. At one time we had a 65 Lincoln convert, 68 Lincoln convert, 76 Eldorado convert., 49 International KB1, 68 Harley Electriglide, etc. I attended hundreds of car shows and saw what were considered classics. My first truck was a 78 Scout and I loved it. Now many years later I personally consider it a classic. They are moderately rare, cool, and people tend to restore and drive. In that sense I consider the Excusrsion a classic. One thing I like to notice is how long a car is considered cool. When the new F body came out for the Firebirds everyone thought it was radical and cool. As the years marched on not so much. A new car is almost always cool when it comes out. I define a classic car as one that stays cool over the years. What I find interesting about my 2002 X is that people watch it as it goes by, mechanics gravitate towards it, guys in Escalades oggle it. Now my truck is stock so they are purely looking at the X and not modifications. That is telling to me and why I am inclined to think this is not your average vehicle and something that will stand the test of time.

 

Same here. Every where I go everyone is looking and checking it out. I have a few mods but it's just a nice truck to look at...

Beth

 

Truth be known, the favorite of our old cars is a plain ol' 1965 Chevy BelAir 2dr. that my mother bought new. It's a real road beast with a 230 6 cylinder under the hood and a "three on the tree" column shifter. It was my cruising car all though high school, my dating car in college, our honeymoon car and I started my business out of the trunk of it in 1974. It protected me in three bad traffic accidents where it was totalled and I rebuilt it each time. We still have it and drive it on old car tours. It's not a classic but we've sure had a lot of good times together! Although it has the least financial value of our collection, from the emotional perspective it's priceless. I'd let all of our old cars go before I'd part with my old friend.

Yeah, 6686L's correct in his literal use of the word "classic". In Webster's New World Dictionary, one of the definitions for classic is "[Colloq.] an automobile of the period 1925-42." In the same dictionary, another definition is "4. of or having a style that is balanced, formal, objective, restrained, regular, simple, etc."

So now that I've further educated myself, I sadly have to accept the fact that neither my Excursion, 6686L nor myself will ever be regarded as a true classic as per the literal definitions of the term.

No time to mourn now. . . got to go teach some pigs to sing.

BJ Lexington, KY

 

Yes, the above represents how ignorant America has become, as a result of a failed educational system, where mental discipline and precision of thinking is no longer valued. And why should it be ? It is the asians who are now being trained in "precision of thinking"..after all...that is where we have shipped our manufacturing technology.

Again, I like my own Excursion. But, anyone who wants to come over and yell as loud as they can, the word "classic" at it, is welcome to try. If they can get its shape & technical characteristics to change, so it looks like one of the big, expensive, elegant "super luxury" cars of the 1920's and 1930's that ARE real classic cars, ( such as a Pierce Arrow V-12, Cadillac V-16, Packard V-12, etc..) they are welcome to try ! (gawd..I sure hope it dosnt turn into a Ford truck of the 1930's...eeeeeww...).

To be fair, I should note that the ANTIQUE CAR CLUB OF AMERICA (since it has been taken over by used car dealers) now says ANY old car is an "antique" if it is more than 25 years old! And they have a LOT of members with used cars who get VERY angry if you question them as to why they call their 1960's used Chevrolets "antiques".

Perhaps some of you are a member of that organization and can help me out. I have a 1983 Toyota Corolla. I would like some of you to come over to my house...and YELL the word "antique" as loud as you can at that car.

Who knows..if enough of you yell the word "antique" loud enough, at my 1983 Toyota Corolla, perhaps it will change its shape..and become a car that looks like, and has the technical features, of a car built before the onset of the World War One years. That means it would not have an on-board electrical system...its alternator and battery would disappear, and in its place..its lighting would be by carbide / accetellyne gas. Its front brakes would disappear, and its rear brakes would become "external contracting" cable operated, in place of its moden hydraulic drum brakes. And its steel body would give way to a wood-framed body. And its ballon tires would give way and become narrow high pressure tires.....sure....

 

My wife is a college administrator at the major university here and is also on the Merit Scholarship committee that evaluates candidates. She is constantly amazed at the superior level of intellect, ability, talent and educational preparation in the applicants as well as most of the students who attend their college within the university. I am an IT professional and have the opportunity to work in many educational environments and I can assure you that the education these young folks are getting and the informational resources they have access to are head and shoulders above anything we ever experienced in school.

I've made four church related hurricane Katrina mission trips so far, two of which were leading groups of college age youth. I was honored to be able to work with such a hard working, articulate group of young people. If they're a representation of the type of leadership the next generation is going to bring to our great country, then I'm all for letting them have it. Maybe they'll be able to rebuild the manufacturing base in our country that your generation and mine sent off to slave labor countries not because of their "precision of thinking" education but rather their abyssmal treatment of their working class.

Our "classic" cars represent a level of excess mostly from the period of the Great Depression when thousands of people couldn't educate their kids because they were dealing with more pressing issues like where the next meal was coming from and where they would sleep that night. And we don't dare address the moral, intellectual and spiritual loss to our great nation due to the horrors of racism, segregation and sexism of the period. Yet, we still rallied enough team spirit to win the War of Wars. We came out of that period with a realigned sense of priorities in which there was no place for the opulent classics.

So if the main sin of the young folks on this board is to ask the question if the Excursion will become a classic, then we really don't have much to complain about, do we? And just remember, the same generation that you're railing against are the same young folks who are laying their lives on the line in Iraq and other places around the world so that old poots like you and I can freely post our dribble on the internet without fear of political retribution.

By the way, when I was out in the driveway a little while ago, I followed your suggestion and called my Excursion a classic. I think I saw the sides of it's egg-crate grill pull up just a little bit . . . . .

BJ Lexington, KY

 

I am driving 2 classics then right I Thinking a $100,000 each any buyers

 

whjco , you said what needs to be said . I heard the same type of worry being expressed by the older generation when I graduated from Hi-school in 1955.
We old folks don't like change .

 

I'm at a loss here, What do we call the hundreds of cars of value ( I dont dare say the C word ) made after the 30's, Junk heaps, sub-primal steel???

 

What do you call those 1950's and 1960's cars you like ? Good question. I have an answer, but you wont like it. It will require you to THINK for yourself, and that is no longer "politically correct". Let's say, for example, you have a "classic 1957 Chevrolet" that you like, and want to describe it to someone.

Try this for an expermiment. Say someone asks you what kind of old car you have that you like. Instead of saying you have a "classic 1957 Chevrolet"...try this...just say you have a "1957 Chevrolet"...and see what happens....let us know.

 

I know I know!!!!!!!


"Oh, what a classic!!!!!!!"

And folks, we have officially gone full circle on this thread!!

Beth

 

Hi B.J.

Thank you for your very interesting post !

Well said - and I agree with 99% of it. You are so right...the REAL "classics", ( again, the largest, most luxurious, most powerful and elegant "super cars" of the 1920's and 1930's) were grotesque excesses. As you may know, I own a Packard V-12 from that era - 480 cu. in engine that will go faster in 2nd gear than most ordinary cars of that era would go in high. At the same time the Packard Company was building Packard V-12's, it built and sold a whole bunch of perfectly adquate "ordinary man" cars - its so called "120" series - a nice performing car that certainly couldnt compare to what a Packard V-12 will do, but well-designed for the driving conditions it would be most likely to be used in. And it had an economical 280 cu. in motor that got TWICE the gas mileage of the vastly faster and more powerful V-12.

I am fortunate - I can, with a straight face, maintain my Excursion is NOT an extravagance; I rarely use it. Our normal car is a Toyta RAV 4, which delivers close to 30 mpg, (and seats five comfortably, so we have no problem "double-dating" when the need arises).

When I was looking for a "mint / new condition" V-10Excursion last year, I was amazed to find so many of them that had 100,000 miles or MORE ! I cant imagine using this monster as a normal "get there" type car. But, apparently, lots of people do ! Now THAT, in my view, is an "excess"!.

As I noted, we got lucky and found one with 14,000 miles - still smells new. And, of course, its technology is so far ahead of cars made even 30 years ago, well...we all know about that !

But, again, we hardly ever use it - it's purchase was to solve the one problem it, as a one ton truck with a station-wagon body, is well-suited for - towing our motor-yacht (yeah, it is a bit presumptious to call our boat that - but, legally, it is a motor yacht) when we go on trips.

I have to say I do feel a bit silly on the very rare occasions (when my wife is out in the Toyota and I just HAVE to go somewhere) I take the Excursion or the Packard V-12. No question you are right..these "road locomotives" are grotsque excesses, when used like that !

Your glowing description of some of the young people you and your wife deal with, gives me hope in the youth of America..I do know young people like you describe - hope there will be more of them...! I wont go out and buy Chinese bonds...just yet...!

 

I couldn't have said it better myself!!!

BJ Lexington, KY

 

I think the Excursion is not just a classic it is the Dream Of the new generation as the only Vehicle to travel well with a big family comfortably!!!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6686L

Excellent point - you are right the relatively few people who saw the merit in preserving antique cars ( "antique" meaning cars built before the 1920's) ..oh...oh..sorry..I realize that you young people also LIKE the word "antique" , and like your use of the word "classic", enjoy slapping that word, too on just about everything, caring NOTHING for the meaning of these words.. .) yes - you are right - these people are getting grayer and disappearing. . . . .

Then, as now, people would take an "ordinary man's" type car ( Ford, Plymouth, etc., an "gut" its very ordinary drive-line and "hot rod" it. That hasn't changed. Frankly, if I got stuck with a 1930's Ford or other such ordinary used car, I would "toss" the crummy engines, transmissions, and drive-lines they came with, and hot rod them too..

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6686L

two "big ole "cylinders in a Maxwell..."felt like wings" to its owner ? Must be two different "Maxwell" automobile companies. The one I remember, produced dinky little cheapo economy cars, that would be hard-put to hit 40 mph. I really shouldn't say, because I never was interested in dinky little cheapo economy cars of ANY era. Certainly understandable why people would turn their nose up at them.

Although not an antique car fan (again...ANTIQUE cars are cars built with ANTIQUE ceatures..meaning..prior to the 1920's...meaning...EXTERNAL contracting brakes, high pressure tires, wood spoke wheels, etc).....I do recall some antique cars that DID have BIG cylinders..and LOTS of them.

BIG powerful fast cars, like the Locomobile, Pierce Arrow "66" series, Packard Twin Six, stuff like that. ..?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6686L

Again, I like my own Excursion. But, anyone who wants to come over and yell as loud as they can, the word "classic" at it, is welcome to try. If they can get its shape & technical characteristics to change, so it looks like one of the big, expensive, elegant "super luxury" cars of the 1920's and 1930's that ARE real classic cars, ( such as a Pierce Arrow V-12, Cadillac V-16, Packard V-12, etc..) they are welcome to try ! (gawd..I sure hope it dosnt turn into a Ford truck of the 1930's...eeeeeww...).....

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6686L

...the REAL "classics", ( again, the largest, most luxurious, most powerful and elegant "super cars" of the 1920's and 1930's) were grotesque excesses. As you may know, I own a Packard V-12 from that era - 480 cu. in engine that will go faster in 2nd gear than most ordinary cars of that era would go in high. At the same time the Packard Company was building Packard V-12's, it built and sold a whole bunch of perfectly adquate "ordinary man" cars - its so called "120" series - a nice performing car that certainly couldnt compare to what a Packard V-12 will do, but well-designed for the driving conditions it would be most likely to be used in. And it had an economical 280 cu. in motor that got TWICE the gas mileage of the vastly faster and more powerful V-12....!

We're an automotive society. As such, we each have special memories of and/or interest in one, if not several, special cars and/or trucks in our past that played a major part in our lives. And, as such, they're very special and personal memories and interests. In the present, we're interested in our Excursions or we wouldn't be here making posts in this forum. They represent the most modern form of automotive engineering, safety and performance and their worth is in the utility that they provide and the fun we get out of driving them.

From a purely rational standpoint, most of the antique, vintage, classic, used (however you choose to categorize them) vehicles are not worth much more than junk value. Their time is past and their practical utility and safety is not up to par with our modern vehicles. What makes these vehicles valuable is their place in our hearts and their place in American history.

As such, the collector car hobby is a passion and we each have our own personal passion and perspective as to what is rewarding, meaningful and has worth. That's why we have a niche for the street and modifieds, specific manufacturing company (and subgroups) clubs, clubs that cater to antiques, classics . . . you get the idea. It's quite a personal thing with each one of us.

My personal passion and fascination is in the specific history and mechanics of each one of these vehicles and the joy of making them go down the road. I love to see the smiles on peoples faces and would like to think that my old hunk of iron may have made a few minutes in someone's day just a little happier. I love the memories that get triggered by one of my old cars and to hear the personal stories that emanate from people that I wouldn't have ordinarily met had I not been driving an old car. The club that in which I choose to partcipate, the Veteran Motor Car Club of America (www.vmcca.org) is primarily a driving and touring club. While we're preservationists and don't accept modified vehicles (there are plenty of other clubs that already cater to this niche), our emphasis is not limited to just the hardware but on the fun and camaradrie of touring with one another and exploring our great country. I've been blessed to get to work on and drive a tremendous number of historic autos and trucks over the years, including a large number of "classic" automotibles. It's a positive and uplifting experience and I treasure it. I especially value the warm and welcoming attitude of the overwhelming majority of our membership to new folks. Give our web site a look, you may want to come join us. You've already got the tow vehicle in case you wish to trailer it! Besides, you're just as likely to find folks hanging out in the parking lot swappin' lies about their tow vehicles just as much as their old cars because if it has an engine, we're interested in it!

We were on a One and Two Cylinder Tour (for cars made prior to 1914 equipped with a 1 or 2 cylinder engine) in Ohio about 12 years ago that stopped at the Neil Armstrong Museum in Wapakoneta, OH. We pulled into the parking lot in our 1909 Maxwell LD and I was approached by a newspaper reporter. He asked me where the car show was and I replied that there wasn't one. He then asked what all the old cars were doing there and I told him we were on an antique car tour. He then asked me what the difference was between a show and a tour and I told him "At an antique car show, we collect plaques and trophies. On an antique car tour, we collect friendships and memories." Darned if he didn't print that in the paper the next day.

We were driving our 1914 Studebaker Touring on a Nickel Tour in Wisconsin some years ago that had a morning coffee and donut stop at an elementary/middle school. The kids were quite excited to get to see these old cars that they'd only seen as static displays in a museum out on the road and actually running. They could hear the sounds of the old engines and gearboxes and the various vintage horns and noisemakers on the cars. A friend of mine, who was driving an early 1920's Rambler Touring, and I approached the school administrators with an idea. We ended up taking the two cars and giving every child in that school a ride. Sure we missed lunch, but the smile on just one of those kids' faces is worth far more to me than any one of the trophies I've got out in the garage gathering dust. And yes, we did address the various liability and insurance issues before doing it.

Like any group of folks, there's alway one or two that seem to delight in making themselves a little difficult. They're the ones who, unfortunately, get their feelings of self worth too invested into what they own and drive and somehow seem to be, in their own minds, something "special". They seem to think that belittling and demeaning others elevates their position in life. It appears that they genuinely enjoy putting other folks down and hurting other peoples feelings. They serve a purpose. I believe that God puts some people on earth because someone has to anchor one end of the bell curve - there has to be a point of reference of how we do or do not relate to one another. I don't feel sorry for them because it's their choice to follow this lonely and bitter path. Thankfully, these kind of folks don't last long in our club not because they're ousted or rejected but because we just don't care about their pompous opinions. They fail to get their satisfaction and end up moving on to "enlighten" folks elsewhere until they quickly wear out their welcome again. Sometimes they wise up and change their priorities and discover the truly fulfilling, meaningful and purposeful things in life. Sometimes they don't and just end up taking their shallow and bitter ways to the grave. Again, their choice.

The classics of yesteryear certainly represent the epitome of the automotive industry of the past and many are considered rolling art forms. But it was the "ordinary man's cars" that put this nation on wheels. Those "crummy engines, transmissions and drive-lines" changed our way of life and positively impacted our country in a way that those cherished classics never did and never will.

So, what happens if I'm driving my old Studebaker and you come up and call it a "classic"? I'd keep my mouth shut because I'd rather get to know you and your stories and just possibly be gifted with your friendship. And who knows, maybe you'll want to come and join in on the fun. Or maybe some day 25 years or so in the future we may be touring together in our classic Excursions!

BJ Lexington, KY