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1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1987 - 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - including the 1997 heavy-duty F250/F350+ trucks

Won't Start in the cold!

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Old Dec 11, 2007 | 06:45 AM
  #16  
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subford
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From: Easton,Ks
No the coil is more than likely good.
Your problem lies in the distributor PIP sensor, ICM or wiring between them.

If you buy a ICM make sure you buy a BLACK one, do not let them talk you into a GRAY one even though their boo says so. All of the auto part stores books (computers) are wrong for your truck. If you want an ICM you may have to get one from a Ford dealer, as they are the only ones that have it right.

If it is the PIP sensor (more than likely your problem) you will need to buy the whole distributor. You can buy the PIP sensor by itself but the distributor has to be removed and completely disassembled to replace the sensor.

If it is the wiring I do not know of anybody has found the problem in it with out unwrapping the harness completely and checking each wire. If you have some expensive equipment you could check the wires and jump around the bad one. Everybody tries shaking the wires and this may make the problem come and go but it will make it harder to find the problem it then works for a while.

The Manuel to have for your truck is the 1996 Ford truck shop manual and the 1996 Electrical & Vacuum Trouble-Shooting Manual.
Both are available from Helm INC. or some times you can find them on ebay.
Click here for helm on the 96 F150.
http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.asp?Style=&Mfg=FMC&Make=FCT&Model=F150&Year =1996&Category=&Keyword=&Module=&selected%5Fmedia= &mscsid=5NHRV7VK4BJK8MNL14UWHQHSKKAN7LS1

Here is a diagram of your Ignition system.
Note that for a trucks under 8500 GVW and the 5.0 engine change the pin numbers for the PCM in the diagram as follows 4 =48, 36=50, 16=23 & 56=49.




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Last edited by subford; Dec 11, 2007 at 07:08 AM.
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Old Dec 11, 2007 | 07:58 AM
  #17  
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when I get home tonight I'll check all the wiring for continuity and issues between wires. Is there any tests to perform to determine which component (ICM or distributor) is bad?
 
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Old Dec 11, 2007 | 12:03 PM
  #18  
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Ignition concepts

Does anyone have any basic .pdf's on the concept of this system? I guess I'm still lost. If there's only two wires going to the coil, and they both have power, but still dont have power on top, what the heck tells the coil to send power to the distributor cap?!?
 
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Old Dec 11, 2007 | 08:41 PM
  #19  
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From: Easton,Ks
Originally Posted by GBalcom
Does anyone have any basic .pdf's on the concept of this system? I guess I'm still lost. If there's only two wires going to the coil, and they both have power, but still dont have power on top, what the heck tells the coil to send power to the distributor cap?!?
As shown in the diagrams above the wire from the ICM to the coil will ground and open this wire to fire the coil. The ICM takes the place of what the points would do in earlier ignition systems. When the SPOUT is in the PCM computer will tell the ICM when to fire the coil and with the SPOUT out you disconnect the Ignition system from the PCM Computer and then the ICM will fire the coil at Base timing (10 deg BTDC).

The ICM is remote mount, is not mounted on the distributor but in another location within the engine compartment (Systems B, C, D, F, G and H).

The components of the configuration consist of the ICM, distributor, CMP (hall effect PIP) sensor, and E-core ignition coil. On the remote mount configuration, a Sealed Distributor is used. The CMP (hall effect PIP) sensor is located inside the distributor on this configurations. Note also that there are no mechanisms on distributor for centrifugal or vacuum advance.

The CMP (hall effect PIP) sensor inside the distributor responds to a rotating metallic shutter on the distributor shaft and produces a digital PIP signal. This signal provides base timing information and is an indication of engine speed (rpm) and position. Note that since the shutter is mounted on the distributor shaft, two revolutions of the engine crankshaft are required to fire each spark plug once. This is because the distributor rotates at half the crankshaft speed.

The internal circuitry of the ICM will have one of two possible arrangements, push start or computer controlled dwell (CCD). The push start system allows for increased dwell, or coil ON time, when starting the engine. The ICM on this system determines when to turn the coil ON based upon engine rpm information. The coil is then fired, or turned OFF, whenever a rising edge of a SPOUT signal is encountered. The SPOUT signal, short for SPark OUTput, is a digital signal generated by the PCM providing spark angle information to the ICM. The SPOUT signal on the push start system controls only the firing of the coil. The falling edge of the SPOUT signal is ignored. The CCD system, however, does use both edges of the SPOUT signal. The SPOUT signal for the CCD system is same as in the push start except that the falling edge is now generated to control the time at which the coil is turned ON. The coil ON time, or dwell, for this system is thus entirely controlled by the SPOUT signal. The ICM does not internally determine when to turn the coil ON as it does on the push start system. It responds directly to the SPOUT signal it receives.

In the case that the SPOUT signal line opens from the PCM, the ICM will use the PIP signal to fire the coil. This results in a fixed spark angle and fixed dwell.
 
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Old Dec 11, 2007 | 08:53 PM
  #20  
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From: Easton,Ks
Originally Posted by GBalcom
Does anyone have any basic .pdf's on the concept of this system? I guess I'm still lost. If there's only two wires going to the coil, and they both have power, but still dont have power on top, what the heck tells the coil to send power to the distributor cap?!?
As shown in the diagrams above the wire from the ICM to the coil will ground and open this wire to fire the coil. The ICM takes the place of what the points would do in earlier ignition systems. When the SPOUT is in the PCM computer will tell the ICM when to fire the coil and with the SPOUT out you disconnect the Ignition system from the PCM Computer and then the ICM will fire the coil at Base timing (10 deg BTDC).

The ICM is remote mount, is not mounted on the distributor but in another location within the engine compartment (Systems B, C, D, F, G and H).

The components of the configuration consist of the ICM, distributor, CMP (hall effect PIP) sensor, and E-core ignition coil. On the remote mount configuration, a Sealed Distributor is used. The CMP (hall effect PIP) sensor is located inside the distributor on this configurations. Note also that there are no mechanisms on distributor for centrifugal or vacuum advance.

The CMP (hall effect PIP) sensor inside the distributor responds to a rotating metallic shutter on the distributor shaft and produces a digital PIP signal. This signal provides base timing information and is an indication of engine speed (rpm) and position. Note that since the shutter is mounted on the distributor shaft, two revolutions of the engine crankshaft are required to fire each spark plug once. This is because the distributor rotates at half the crankshaft speed.

The internal circuitry of the ICM will have one of two possible arrangements, push start or computer controlled dwell (CCD). The push start system allows for increased dwell, or coil ON time, when starting the engine. The ICM on this system determines when to turn the coil ON based upon engine rpm information. The coil is then fired, or turned OFF, whenever a rising edge of a SPOUT signal is encountered. The SPOUT signal, short for SPark OUTput, is a digital signal generated by the PCM providing spark angle information to the ICM. The SPOUT signal on the push start system controls only the firing of the coil. The falling edge of the SPOUT signal is ignored. The CCD system, however, does use both edges of the SPOUT signal. The SPOUT signal for the CCD system is same as in the push start except that the falling edge is now generated to control the time at which the coil is turned ON. The coil ON time, or dwell, for this system is thus entirely controlled by the SPOUT signal. The ICM does not internally determine when to turn the coil ON as it does on the push start system. It responds directly to the SPOUT signal it receives.

In the case that the SPOUT signal line opens from the PCM, the ICM will use the PIP signal to fire the coil. This results in a fixed spark angle and fixed dwell.



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Old Dec 12, 2007 | 04:06 AM
  #21  
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Sorry but I'm an idiot

Subford,
Thank you so much for spending the time to help me understand this. Your posts are awesome. I finally pushed the truck into the garage last night to take a better look at the situation. Actually my haynes manual does show some tests on this, I have power at both points on the harness going into the coil when in run mode as discussed before. When the engine is cranked, I have flashing power at the (negative coil terminal?), like it says I should. (it's the tan wire)
I didn't know that I needed to ground out the screwdriver when I put the coil wire in to see a spark. I did that and had spark. I took off the cap and that and the rotor were corroded. I cleaned it up and put it back together and I know now I have spark within the cap because when I pulled the #1 wire of the spark plug to test there with the screwdriver, I could literally see sparks inside the cap!! no spark at the end of the #1 wire though. I think it actually started to burn a whole in the cap. I'm going to get a new one tonight on my way home. hopefully this will solve my issues? Again I appreciate everyone's help in this, you guys are great!
 
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Old Dec 13, 2007 | 05:29 AM
  #22  
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Fixed :-)

turns out it was just the stupid cap and rotor......I've always changed them before as preventative maintenance, never had one go bad before. I appologize to Subford for all the work he went through. I printed it out and am saving it in case something worse happens later. Thanks again
 
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