Tell me were the UAW fits in here then?

So whose fault is it that Americans have the freedom to choose what they want, and they choose to buy a "foreign" car because it's their choice. It must be the Japanese fault that they may offer a better product in the eyes of others. So I get it, you are doing your country proud by settling for a product that you are not pleased with only because the majority of the profit "might" stay in your country.

Doesn't sound like freedom to me.

So then the US couldn't do the same years ago?

 

quite simple: toyota isn't paying as much as the big 3 and the UAW isn't happy about it. toyota also hasn't been around long enough to feel the full wrath of the UAW; the big 3 on the other hand have not felt this kind of pressure early on, and look where they are now - the high wages mean expensive cars for em. Where do you see toyota in 100 years if this trend continues? my bet is either ****ty paid jobs (as currently) or if the UAW has their way, high paying jobs/benefits and much more expensive cars.


it's Europe and Japan's faults for putting tarriffs and not allowing a good portion of our vehicles to be sold in their countries and it's our gov't fault for not putting the same tarriffs and similar limits on what they sell over here.

how well do you think a base camry or civic would do if they were 27 grand for a stripped down base model?

japan has limits on HP and huge taxes on larger displacement engines. Can't sell anything over 286hp, and engines over 3L have insane taxes on em... check out some of the taxes involved in shipping a car overseas if you don't believe me. what do you think would happen if US all of a suddent made it a requirement for cars to have at least 200lbs of torque?

would it violate our freedom of still choosing those cars? newp. it would mean us playing by their rules.


could have, but didn't. that's my beef. take a trip overseas sometime and check out the perception of the people on japanese vs american vs european cars. you'll understand better where I'm coming from.

 

I'll drink to that!

 

Another question to ponder. Who's responsible for Honda and Toyota NOT having to involve the UAW in their factories?

One can hardly fault a company for coming in and taking advantage of the situation for their own gain. It was an issue that could have been rectified many years ago and the ball was dropped.

Fill me in. I've never heard any preceptions from the whole "foreign vs domestic" issue from the other side of the coin.....

 

true dat, we can't fault the company, but we can point out and whine and complain about it nonetheless, eh? Got Walmart?

it's weird. in europe, even though we have this holier than thou image of european cars, the reality there is much different. the same european models as here have much smaller engines, and those few are pretty dang rare and seen as upper scale models. Your average european car is something with under 2.0L displacement and looks like a shoebox with headlights. ford's and chevys are viewed probably the same way we view bmw over here, which is amazing considering all they have from ford is focuses, rangers, and the mondeo (which is indeed a badass car, but it's something the size/league of a fusion, not exactly a top of the line lincoln towncar). japanese cars are pretty much nonexistant as far as I could see. they couldn't compete with VW, Renault or Fiat or Opel out there... Koreans even have more of a market share over there than japanese cars.

They compare their cars and consider 90% of the stuff available to your average buyer is between 1.3 and 1.8 liters engines (as easily as it is for us to consider stuff with 4.0 to ~6.0-6.8 engines for example); throw in the mix your average 2.0L focus or 2.5L mondeo, or them diesel rangers (are you listening ford??) and it's easy to see why they view american cars as being so badass... to us, that's nothing to get excited over...

what's interesting though, europe has tarriffs for both american cars and japanese cars. japan has like no market over there. when the playing field is level, japan loses against us...

 

Why do you think the Big 3 has had to layoff workers, because all the sales are going to the Japs, so that decline of jobs can partly be blamed on the consumer(I know the company can be blamed also) for not buying American.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by wendell borror
It doesn't bother me about vehicles built in canada or mexico, it's still north america. Alot of americans cross the bridge everyday to go to work in Windsor along with our canadain brothers. As far as mexico were going to suport them one way or another, either have plants down there or the ones streaming across the boarder everyday looking for work, it's all good. This topic has been argued way too much on a ford forum if you ask me. We have loyal ford guy's and those who bought a ford because it's the flavor of the month for them. For those of us who are loyal ford guy's, were never gonna be convinced to buy japanese, so why bother, it's a pointless debate. Myself and a lpt of others will never buy japanese no matter how much BS gets slung. We buy american, we believe in american and those who try to change that wre doing a disservice to our country and companies. It's a free country, you can do as you wish, like wise we can as well. Go pedal your japanese is best crap else where, it's not going to fly here for most of us. I buy fords, my dad buys fords and his dad bought fords and my sons buy fords. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Toyota has the ugliest trucks on the market, look like a toad on steroids, thats reason enough to stay away from them if no other. Ford has allways served me well and will continue to do so as long as I draw breath. I was raised on ford money, my dad draws his ford retirement, friends and family still depend on ford for a living, thats all reason enough to have fords in my driveway, there the best is the other reason.
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I totally agree with Wendell. I said it once and I'll say it again SCREW TOYOTA & HONDA! I will never buy any of these brands.

 

Lets have another Drink..

 

I've read the posts and here is my 2 cents:
I buy nothing but American cars, to be exact Ford, GM or Chrysler. Now I know many would debate American cars but that is how I see it. Why do the Asian car makers build there cars here? It’s cheaper. One factor the big 3 contend with is UAW. Put UAW in the Asian factories here in the US and eventually there costs go up. They either stop making them here or there profitability goes down (like the big 3)
Unions have done good things over the years for both union and non union workers but in the auto business they also should share in a part of the blame for the current problems. Now all those big union people would like to blame just management, and they do deserve a part too. But UAW does too. The big 3 spend more per car on health care than steel. I'm sorry but you can't pay $20. Per hour to sweep the floor. At the same time when you pay that for a floor sweeper and ask them to put a nut on a bolt and you have a situation. I was reading on the blue oval web site a few months back about a UAW worker who installed nuts on a front end component. He ran out of nuts and hit the red button to stop the line. When the supervisor came to see why someone stopped the line the worker told him. The supervisor asked about the worker sitting across from him putting the same nuts on the passenger side. Asked why he didn't go over and get nuts from him and keep the line moving. The worker refused and was going to sit there until the proper person bought over the supply of nuts. The supervisor walked over grabbed a hand full of nuts and restarted the line.
That type of stuff is not to blame for all of Fords problems but to sit there as a union worker and not acknowledge they had any fault is ridiculous. To then complain about jobs going over seas is then blind and not thought out. I'm not slamming anyone here just adding another point to the many that cause this situation to exist.

 

Can't figure out why a thread about posting at work has turned into a peeing contest and a debate.. It should not be a debate on this subject

Some site's are setup for debates like political forums but I can not figure out why so many threads lately has turned out like that..

 

The nature of the first post is opinion. When there is opinion there is always going to be debate. There is no 100% black and white right answer. No surprise this topic became debate.

 

I have seen 4 other threads with the same folks doing the same thing..

 

Oh I now understand what you mean. I was not aware these folks go at it regularly I was just adding an additional view. Did not mean to get in the middle of an on going web poster squabble

 

That's okay and no worries....

 

It allways turns into a debate on this subject because it runs very deep with a lot of people. Those who care watch our auto manufactures struggle, lay off workers and close plants because of the influx of japanese cars. Even here on a ford forum we are bomb barded on why we should buy japanese or why thier so great. We have people that try and justify why it's ok to buy japanese. Well some of us diehards don't buy it, we know the devestation brought on by the japanese to our own companies. We feel it's a shame that our companies have to down size just to compete in our own land against a country who attacked us and that we had to rebuild. Japan would be a waste land today if it wasn't for us. It wasn't good enough that they get the small car market, now there going after the large truck market, the last american stronghold and it means war. Americans have had enough of japan and those who thinks it's fine to suport them as thier own countrymen suffer. The bright side is that ford is making a comeback and I hope they beat the japanese at thier own game. We have the know how and have been doing it longer. Not only will the americans beat them, but we will do it with the UAW in tow, because thats how strong we are. Now it's up to the car buying public to help, we all have ford in common thats why were all here. Lets all help to make ford profitable again. lets forget our differences and unite for the common good.

 

wow... you guys are confusing me!! :0