I'm with Kwik. Look at the vacuum he is pulling on the filter. Are you sure three would be enough? maybe he should use a leaf blower like I saw on a thread.

 

I actually call BS on his sucking them in at all personally. I don't care what his mods are he isn't pushing those numbers he isn't pulling anywhere near the limits of a 6637 unless he is turning a PSD at 6000+rpm and he would be pushing breaking the block apart at those boost and rpm levels.

someone needs to go look at what the 6637 is ACTUALLY for and you will see that he ONLY way he could possibly suck that filter through is to almost double the CID of the engine or double the rpms. the 6637 is used on a air compressor at close to 800cid capacity in moderate to severe conditions as per application

And to further the BS why would someone that supposedly spent anywhere near what would have to have been spent on that truck to get anywhere near those types of numbers worry about the cost of an air filter.

 

Monsterbaby you always make me think some more!

 

The CID and CFM isn't the issue! Do you believe Joe's story of imploding his 6637? It all has to do with the restriction, as this is what causes the squeezing force that implodes the filter. What do you think would happen to a 6637 filter if you get it in a bear hug and apply a 200 lb squeezing force? Well that's what happens when you pull a 20" restriction! In the 6637 thread below, I gave an analysis of this, and a link to the outside world which describes the implosion of these types of filters in diesel applications, but no one bothered to click it! You can also check post #8 in the thread below...

Intake CFM shootout
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/649324-intake-cfm-shootout.html

 

Gene I actually have read that but I also know for a fact that in order for you to have a pressure drop through a filter you need some form of restriction beyond the capacity of the filter to flow air ( in other words the cfm capacity of the air filter) in this case you have a filter of flowing over double what the engine is capable of possibly sucking through and the only way you can create enough pressure drop to deform the filter is to restrict it. in order to have that much restriction on a 6637 filter in 1000 miles it would have to be subjected to a severe dust storm while running at full throttle. Believe me and you of all people should realize this because I have seen the stuff you write and think about, if his story is even REMOTELY true then at any beginnings of restriction the rest of us would be deforming these filters on a regular bases, and there are plenty of guys pulling 40+ psi of boost on heavily modified trucks running this filter and running it many miles without collapsing them.
Thats not even touching the supposed 65lbs of boost that is claimed in this application for 400 miles he claimed. I mean seriously think about that one for about 30 seconds and you will realize the guys that are truly running those types of boost pressures are race only trucks that probably don't see 400 miles a year (that is 1600 1/4 mile passes most races see 2-400 passes max per year) and even if it is on road use I would be real surprised to see more than 1/2 mile at anywhere near those boost levels before seeing the crankshaft laying on the ground let alone long enough to suck the filter clear through and shove it THROUGH his intercooler then claim no damage.... yeah right.
Now if he is turning a 444 cid engine 6000 rpm with the turbo at 65 psi of boost then it might be possible with a new filter and certianly with a dirty one but this sounds more like someone hearing about his happening to some person without first hand knowledge of what happened and making the story his own.

 

How many CFM do you think Joe was flowing when he accidently collapsed his 6637 while parked in his drive way. When you rev to 2000 RPM in neutral like Joe did, a 7.3L engine flows (0.1285)(RPM)=257 CFM, and that's a fact, and that's all it took to collapse his filter! To my way of thinking, Joe's unfortunate experiment which tested the strength of the 6637 seems to confirm the "crush analysis" I posted months ago!

Did you click the link I gave to the technical service bulletin 06-2 on "Heavy-Duty Diesel Engine Air Filter Collapse"? That link mentions many reasons for collapse...

Collapse of a heavy-duty air filter is defined as a permanent deformation of the unit after airflow is removed. This occurs when the pressure drop across the filter exceeds the design limit of the device.

Filters tend to load very quickly after a certain point, not servicing them soon after the maximum allowable restriction is reached can end up causing a very high level of pressure drop across the filter, and may result in a collapse condition.

Another possibility of filter collapse is sub-standard element construction or remanufacture.

Dented liners or end caps may result in a loss of structural integrity and filter collapse. Damage may be present but not very visible. If the filter shows any sign of damage, don't use it.

One possibility of excessive water ingestion often not accounted for is the introduction of high levels of moisture during washing of the vehicle, water can weaken and plug the filter media long enough to cause collapse.

 

Gene -- two things. One, the filter was essentally COMPLETELY restricted, so when I drew that vacuum, it crushed like it was made of tin foil. BUT my point (and this is two) was that even then, the paper didn't come apart even after being severely deformed.

So that being said, I still have to ask what kinds of restriction is seen using the stock filter being it's "only" rated at 260 cfm, which I nearly exceeded in the driveway in neutral. If the 6637 rated at 425 cfm is so poor of a choice, why are more people not having problems with it? You're hanging your whole agrument here on one either defective or wet filter. Or what Monster said.

Nobody is saying that you CAN'T crush one, just that it's not something common. My screw-up only proves two things for sure: You can crush a nearly completely restricted filter (duh!!), and even after being mutilated, mine didn't come apart and get sucked through the turbo. What that means is what I already said. Either the filter was defective from the start, or it was REALLY wet. Both of those cases are pretty darned rare, from my and just about every others' experience.

I did read the post, BTW. All it says is that the filter has to be very restricted (20-30 in of vacuum) or wet, to summarize. BUT it also said that filters are designed to exceed that level of abuse (but loading increases rapidly after that). Not surprising.

"Diesel engines typically have an intake element service point of 20-30" H2O (5-7.5 kPa), depending on the manufacturer. As stated above, exceeding this by an incremental amount won't cause the filter to collapse, as they are designed to withstand a much higher level of restriction. However, because filters tend to load very quickly after a certain point, not servicing them soon after the maximum allowable restriction is reached (as recommended by the engine manufacturer) can end up causing a very high level of pressure drop across the filter, and may result in a collapse condition."

I think the 6637 far exceeds the loading capacity of the stock filter, as well as flow (per the specs from FleetFilter.com and dyno results). Have you tested the stock filter setup with your restriction gauge yet?

 

Thank you Joe thats along what I am trying to say.
I am not saying you can't collapse a 6637 filter, I am calling BS on not only collapsing but in fact pulling apart what was claimed to be a non restricted new or almost brand new 6637 filter with a 7.3 diesel.... at worst case scenerio all your going to do is deform it not and I quote from the person I am calling on this

it didn't happen period and the rest really sounds like even more bs someone heard or read about on another forum and made the story his/her own.

And edit to add. If your having enough pressure drop across that filter to cause a collapse, let alone a complete shredding of the filter you are NOT going to have enough flow to create 60-65psi of boost and you can calculate that too.

 

i change mine about once a year. It his been ~15000 miles. MOF, i just changed it yesterday. It was really dirty! I will keep a closer eye on it now, but I understand why it was so dirty cuz of all the hunting i did.

 

First, I'm not the one that started up this discussion again, but now that I'm here, I'm just trying to provide some analytical and engineering perspective to the conversation. Restriction is measured in inches H2O, (not in how many Wal-Mart bags you wrap around your filter), and since you don't have a gauge to measure the actual inches H2O restriction, you really don't know how many inches H2O of restriction it took to crush that 6637 like a beer can. And my point is that you didn't give it a chance to finish breaking apart and getting sucked into your turbo. Can you honestly claim that you would've been willing to hook my 5er behind your truck and pull it up a 10 mile long 6% grade with that crushed 6637? If instead of being in your driveway, what if that filter had collapsed under load and you didn't know to stop until you lost power and found your turbo inlet jammed with paper? My argument, if that's what you want to call it, is based on the link I gave to the tech bulletin on filter collapse, on my "crush analysis" of filter collapse, and on several reports I've seen on FTE about filter collapse. Tenn could repeat your driveway test and measure with his gauge the actual restriction required to collapse a 6637. I'll even offer to pay for the collapsed 6637 replacement filter, but not for any collateral damage to his turbo should your prediction prove wrong, and paper is sucked into his turbo.

 

Does this mean that you're willing to help someone potentially damage their turbo, but not willing to do the test yourself on your truck - with your gauges and your turbo?

Not trying to be nitpicky here... but your offer almost does seem almost "backhanded". I only say this beacuse if your "argument" (for lack of a better word) is correct, it makes me wonder why you'd offer to help someone place their equipment at this kind of risk. And I'll go ahead and say that you probably would not encourage someone to do something that was really stupid, but as soon as I say that, it then makes me wonder about your own confidence in the position you've taken.

 

I don't think he meant it Pete, but then again. That potential damage to the turbo is probably his whole point and you are driving it home for him.

Myself, I am sick of this 6637 debating and was doing some thinking. I may just try using my gauge on a filter hooked to my shop vac. I just don't know that it will have enough oomph to suck it down although it will suck water through a carpet. It is a Craftsman 2.5hp and has good suction. If that won't do it I have a couple other ideas. On top of that, my filter is not yet ready to be "crushed". Gene has my address. He can send me a replacement or wait until mine is ready to be crushed.

Or, anyone who has an old one laying around and willing to donate to the cause can send it my way. I'd be happy to lay this to rest. A couple would be ideal as I could wet one too and see what happens at what restriction level.

It is time to put this dog to bed.

 

Mike... I know what you mean. If I weren't using my old 6637 as a mannequin to test fit my filter covers, I'd be happy to send it your way.

Regarding your shop vac... it may be able to pull the right amount of vacuum,. but probably not on the 6637 unless you "bag it" like Joe did... I just don't think it has the CFM capacity by itself.

BTW, Mike... I'm still hoping to get your perspective on the PM I sent the other day... at your convenience, though.

 

Pete, I sent it the same day I got it. Let me know. It was long winded, maybe it had too many characters. I will look in my messages to see if it was rejected but I thought it went out fine. Let me know.

Oh, and I had every intention of bagging the filter and see what it takes to crush it, then really try to suck the paper out of it.

 

well mine is about ready to be replaced as soon as I get the new one I ordered this weekend, it's not plugged but does have probably 30K miles on it. it's yours for the asking just tell me where to send it.