Starter problem from hell!

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Oct 28, 2007 | 11:56 PM

askim

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Starter problem from hell!

I have been through the ringer inthe last few months with this dam starter.I have finally come to the conclusion that the engine in the truck is not what I was told . The truck should have an 86 351w in it but I think it has an older 351 w. Is there a difference beetween the 86 flywheel and previous flywheels. I bought a flywheel and cluthc for an 86 but the bolt holes dont line up. also the starter gear just isnt big enough to engage the flywheel. It is just grabbing with its nails. I know this because we painted it and looked. Would the older 351 starter work? does it have a bigger starter gear? Any help is appreciated.

Oct 29, 2007 | 08:22 AM

Franklin2

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From: Virginia

How many bolts hold the valve cover on? If it has 8 bolts, you have a 351m, not a 351w. That would make a difference.

Oct 30, 2007 | 01:34 AM

askim

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no bro... its not an M. Its a windsor.I think its an older style windsoe tho... not an 86. I think it is the windsor series before that. Whenever that is? I need to know what year the starter changed to a smaller starter gear. The one |I hVE IS FOR THE 86 AND ITS JUST CATCHING THE FLYWHEEL WITH THE FINGERNAILS. In believe the engine series before the 86 engine style has a bigger starter gear on the flywheel. I just dont know what years these engines are and what size the starer gears are. Thanx for the help bro!

I love the 3 second trip in the avatar aswell!!!!!

Oct 30, 2007 | 01:49 AM

gearhead351

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if your 100% sure its a windsor then to check to see what year of engine yours is:

Near the back of the block underneath it. Near where it mates to the tranny. Then is a flat spot almost where the oil pan mates to the block. (Passenger side). There will be a Vin number.

That will tell you what yr of an engine you have.

Im not sure about this but could it be possible you have a 302? almost identical to a windsor just different deck hieght. Here is a pic if you cannot find the vin.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r...t/truck021.jpg

Oct 30, 2007 | 01:58 AM

NumberDummy

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From: Simi Valley, CA

I just looked in my 1980/89 Ford LIght Truck Parts Catalog.

The 351W M/T flywheel is the same 1980 thru 1987 (E0TZ-6375-B).

There are two different starters.

One for A/T ~ E1AZ-11002-B (Motorcraft SA-709-B)

One for M/T ~ E4TZ-11002-A (Motorcraft SA-712-A).

Are their any stamped ID numbers on the flywheel?

Any Ford ID numbers stamped in white ink on the starter?

The starter drives are the same for both starters.

The 351W starters used in 1980/89 (manual or auto trans) are the same ones used in 302's and 300 I-6's.

The flywheel ring gear is the same from 1969 thru at least 1991. It has 164 teeth.

Last edited by NumberDummy; Oct 30, 2007 at 02:21 AM.

Oct 30, 2007 | 02:12 AM

NumberDummy

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From: Simi Valley, CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by gearhead351

Near the back of the block underneath it. Near where it mates to the tranny. Then is a flat spot almost where the oil pan mates to the block. (Passenger side). There will be a Vin number.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r150/dirtmastermatt/truck021.jpg

That's a casting number, not a VIN number.

You might be able to date the block by when it was cast, but casting numbers don't lead to part numbers. If a block was cast in one year, it was used the next, and the same casting number might be used for years.

Example: 1971/79 460 bare blocks use the same casting number: D1VE-6015-AB

Last edited by NumberDummy; Oct 30, 2007 at 02:25 AM.

Oct 30, 2007 | 11:16 AM

84-250

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From: Munroe falls, Ohio

The difference between the auto and manual starter is the length of the nose cone. Using an auto starter for a manual will cause the starter to grind against the flywheel when cranking.
Wasnt there a 154 tooth flywheel available for the 302 or something?

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Oct 31, 2007 | 12:45 PM

askim

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i am getting more and more confused.LOL! I got to find out if this is a 302. i am pretty sure its a 351 w tho. As it sits its on a lift with the flywheel exposed. The flywheel and pressure plate that I bought for an 86 f250 dont work on it either. When installed the pressure plate conflicts with the bell housing. And, the original flywheel when installed doesnt line up with the bolt holes on the 86 pressure plate and clutch.
My guy thinks that this is a 351 car engine swapped into this truck? We just dont know tho? I am going crazy. Basically if I put this thing back together the starter I have for an 86 f250 just doesnt engae ddep enough with the keys on the fly wheel. The bendix extends to the right lenght to line it up but the starter gear just insnt big enough or the fly wheel is to small. Its just catching the flywheel with its finger nails. Any and all help is cool and apppreciated. I will post more info as I get it.

Oct 31, 2007 | 01:21 PM

#10

Franklin2

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From: Virginia

I know of no "early" or "late" 351w as far as the flywheel is concerned, unless they went to a one-piece rear main seal sometime later(not sure on this).

The 302 did have early and late flywheels (different balance weights, but the starters would still interchange) and they also went to a one-piece rear main which changed the flywheel, but the starters would still interchange.

I had a 351w out of a 79 cougar in my 1980 pickup, and it fit fine, but I did use the car starter on it. But the 302 one looked like it would fit. If you ever figure out what engine you have, then you can go to www.partsamerica.com and see what will fit and what won't.

Here's a picture on how to tell the difference between a 351w and a 302.

Dec 16, 2007 | 10:40 PM

#11

krick

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Ive been having a similar problem I have a 82 f150 c6 replaced flex plate still had death noises when cranking it will tear the teeth off starter i thought same thing wrong gear on starter but found out they all use the same. starter is located by trans on auto so it would have to be flexplate. your problem could be you are using an auto starter or wrong flywheel. my lower starter bolt that threads into trans was stripped out someone had put a longer smaller bolt in it with a nut on other side the shoulder of this nut was small enough to let starter rotate away from flexplate. this truck has a 351w. i got the right bolt in it and it cranked perfect till i put fuel in it then it acts like motor kicks back tore teeth off another drive will check timing again tomorow. I feel your pain ive gone thru 4 starters & replaced flexplate on jack stands . Good luck.