Gear reduction starters
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 11
From: Wausau, WI
Gear reduction starters
Is anybody here running a factory gear reduction starter on their truck?
Is there anything special you had to do to make it work (besides bolting it on and it working perfect)?
I just picked up a gear reduction starter for my '86 with auto trans. This was listed for a 1995 with a 351w and auto trans. When I start it, the engine will spin the starter for a second before the teeth disengage. Is this one of those times where I need to shim the starter?
The reason for going with this starter is the old style just doesn't have the power to turn over my engine when it's hot.
Is there anything special you had to do to make it work (besides bolting it on and it working perfect)?
I just picked up a gear reduction starter for my '86 with auto trans. This was listed for a 1995 with a 351w and auto trans. When I start it, the engine will spin the starter for a second before the teeth disengage. Is this one of those times where I need to shim the starter?
The reason for going with this starter is the old style just doesn't have the power to turn over my engine when it's hot.
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,936
Likes: 4,124
From: Angier, NC
And I thought you were going to ask what is everybody using.
Not on my truck but AMC drag car RobbMc Performance Products - RobbMc Mini-Starters
Great customer service from where I have seen posted for the AMC group.
Don't know if I can help but when AMC went to the gear reduction starters the fly wheels & flex plates changed to match up right.
Think it had something to do with how deep the ring gear is from the back of the block between the 2 types.
Is there a way to see if when the gear reduction starter came out did the fly wheel & flex plates change too?
Also how do you shim a ford starter washers?
Dave ----
Not on my truck but AMC drag car RobbMc Performance Products - RobbMc Mini-Starters
Great customer service from where I have seen posted for the AMC group.
Don't know if I can help but when AMC went to the gear reduction starters the fly wheels & flex plates changed to match up right.
Think it had something to do with how deep the ring gear is from the back of the block between the 2 types.
Is there a way to see if when the gear reduction starter came out did the fly wheel & flex plates change too?
Also how do you shim a ford starter washers?
Dave ----
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 11
From: Wausau, WI
Umm, pretty much:
Dorman Help! 02359 - Starter Alignment Shim | O'Reilly Auto Parts
Only $5.00, may be worth a try.
When I first seen these years ago, I just laughed. Now, I wonder....
was somebody thinking...
Tuned
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 318
Likes: 13
From: Baltimore
The permanent magnet starters need to be wired differently. You have to move the starter cable on the fender mounted solenoid to the battery side so that the battery post on the starter is hot all the time. Then run a 10 gauge wire from the empty post of the fender mounted solenoid to the switch terminal of the starter mounted solenoid. You can't just put a jumper from the battery terminal to the switch terminal on the starter, it'll stay engaged. You want to use the fender mounted solenoid to supply power to the switch terminal of the starter. It's important to keep the starter solenoid battery terminal hot all the time.
Last edited by kh0432; Apr 25, 2016 at 04:40 PM. Reason: add attachment
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 11
From: Wausau, WI
Maybe that's where I went wrong. I ran a jumper between the two terminals on the starter. That's how we always hooked up that style...but they were aftermarket ones. I'll try the other way.
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,936
Likes: 4,124
From: Angier, NC
The permanent magnet starters need to be wired differently. You have to move the starter cable on the fender mounted solenoid to the battery side so that the battery post on the starter is hot all the time. Then run a 10 gauge wire from the empty post of the fender mounted solenoid to the switch terminal of the starter mounted solenoid. You can't just put a jumper from the battery terminal to the switch terminal on the starter, it'll stay engaged. You want to use the fender mounted solenoid to supply power to the switch terminal of the starter. It's important to keep the starter solenoid battery terminal hot all the time.
I did not know the Ford GR starter was a permanent magnet starter.
Are all GR starters permanent magnet?
Dave ----
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Virginia
I haven't heard of engagement problems using the jumper, but have heard of disengagement problems. When you release the key and the Ford starter relay on the fender opens, the new style starter is still spinning(but winding down) and as it's doing this is becomes a voltage generator for a short period of time. This voltage can back feed into the starter's solenoid and give the solenoid a delay, keeping it from disengaging for a moment, causing the engine to spin the starter gear more than it should.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Florence, SC
How old and in what condition are your battery cables? Check the ground connection where the negative battery cable attaches to the engine block. I had a problem similar to yours once and it tuned out to be a rusty nut and washer where the ground connection to the block was. After I cleaned it up, my truck was able to fire off a hot engine with even 16 degrees of ignition timing with no problem!
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2011
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Likes: 11
From: Wausau, WI
The ones I have messed with all seem to be permanent magnet, that is why the motor is such a small diameter.
I haven't heard of engagement problems using the jumper, but have heard of disengagement problems. When you release the key and the Ford starter relay on the fender opens, the new style starter is still spinning(but winding down) and as it's doing this is becomes a voltage generator for a short period of time. This voltage can back feed into the starter's solenoid and give the solenoid a delay, keeping it from disengaging for a moment, causing the engine to spin the starter gear more than it should.
I haven't heard of engagement problems using the jumper, but have heard of disengagement problems. When you release the key and the Ford starter relay on the fender opens, the new style starter is still spinning(but winding down) and as it's doing this is becomes a voltage generator for a short period of time. This voltage can back feed into the starter's solenoid and give the solenoid a delay, keeping it from disengaging for a moment, causing the engine to spin the starter gear more than it should.
That's exactly what mine is doing. It stays engaged for a second or two after the engine fires. Gotta switch those wires before I wreck something.
The "old style" starter should turn your engine over just fine when it's hot. You have a problem somewhere if it doesn't.
How old and in what condition are your battery cables? Check the ground connection where the negative battery cable attaches to the engine block. I had a problem similar to yours once and it tuned out to be a rusty nut and washer where the ground connection to the block was. After I cleaned it up, my truck was able to fire off a hot engine with even 16 degrees of ignition timing with no problem!
How old and in what condition are your battery cables? Check the ground connection where the negative battery cable attaches to the engine block. I had a problem similar to yours once and it tuned out to be a rusty nut and washer where the ground connection to the block was. After I cleaned it up, my truck was able to fire off a hot engine with even 16 degrees of ignition timing with no problem!
The new engine is about 10:1 compression and still fairly tight. Gotta run it and get it broken in the rest of the way.
<- That's me happy now.
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