has any body tried to put a turbo on an inline six before if so how did you do it and did it work ok

 

I was thinking about doing the same thing with a turbo set up from a Turbo Coupe. I hope someone replies to this one.

 

Actually I am in the works on building a Twin Turbo setup for my 1980 F-150 stepside pickup. I have the 300 I-6 in it and am keeping it just to show those v-8 boyees that a 6 can whoop tail. Whittey is more versed in turbo work and is helping me on my setup but here is what peliminary data I have put together so far:
300 I-6 with 2 TO3 turbo's (off of a chrysler or ford 2.2/2.5L 4 cyl), some head work to include porting, and "non-ford" 1.92 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves with "non-ford" 1.7:1 rocker arms. A stock 260 cam is going in it because radical cam's are a no no for turbo's (so I am told..... right whittey). I am doing it carb style so I figure a holley 600 is good. ALL Forged crank, rods, and pistons to hold the abuse I will put to it. The pistons are also going to be of the low compression type. like 7.0:1 or 7.5:1 (stock is like 9.x:1). A high volume oil pump to keep it all lubed well. and all the goodies you need for a turbo like an ignition with boost retard (yes whittey I figured that one out on my own.....heh...) and a progressive rate fuel pump (areomotive style...) All in all I could be capable of up to ~25 pounds (psi? whatever) of boost that will crank approx. 700 ft/lbs of tourqe and approx 600 horseys... :-staun .... All this will be accompanied by many frame and driveline upgrades (namely rear end locker and a T56 6 speed tranny).
Got you drooling yet....... well I am now just to get the reply from whittey so I can try to get the ball rolling on this

 

Hello Kameleon.

Just as a note, that 700ft-lbs is a theoretical max. With 25 PSI perhaps 550-600 actual ft-lbs. I got this number by dividing gauge pressure by absolute pressure and adding one which gives us 2.7. Multiply this by stock torque and you've got 702. The figure in efficiency of turbo(s) and intercoolers (lets say 85%) 596. Of course the engine itself will breath much better than stock N/A so who knows what you'd actually get. Larger valves + 4bbl + ported head = much much better breathing.

You are correct, a large cam is bad in a turbo motor. For this application anyway.. A large cam in a turbo motor works the same as in a N/A motor, but even more so.. If it raises peak HP by 1000rpm on a stock motor, it'll raise it a whole lot more on a pressurized motor. The only application where it would work well is in race applications where that low end really doesn't matter.... With a beast like this, even if you keep stop at 5000 RPM you can easily have 500hp or more.....

Stock compression on these motors is 8.75 for the EFI, 8.4(?) on the carb'd and 8.0 for the HD engines. Or somewhere close to that at any rate.

I will get that email out soon. Been kinda busy (just spent almost 800 USD on tools last night) but i'll try to get that out today.


-=Whittey=-

 

Dang you all sound like you know what you are doing you will have to keep me posted on every thing so I can try it

I am tired of those junk rams stealing all the fun.

 

Well I am not in that big a hurry whittey. I just got my engine guy to get prices on the valves and all internal parts for the engine. I meant to say that was theroetical MAX tourqe....... oops guess I forgot.
I do plan on having a site up soon dedicated to the progress of my truck (complete with pics if my friend will let me borrow his digi cam). I have yet to have seen a site with someone doing this...... weird.
And yes I also am tired of the boys in bowties and the brotherhood of horns stomping all over others. I think it is time to stomp back. My goal is to hang with, if not beat, my friend with a '87 S-10 w/ LT1 (350 rollerized out of a caprice police cruiser) and almost any f-body part imaginable (rear end outta a corvette, disc brakes off a firebird, etc). Fun fun fun.....
Whittey, If you need any help breaking in those tools I am sure I can do without my truck for a week or so if you want to work on it...... heh.

 

I met a fellow once from Colorado that had done this with a turbo from a small diesel engine and a holley 4V, he used the turbo to suck air through the carb into the engine. He said it worked great, claiming that he got 20 mpg on the highway and could now top one of the mountains at 40mph in 2nd where before it was 28mph in 1st.

 

Folks,
Get a copy of ##### Datson's "The Blow-Thru Turbocharger Book". In between the BS is a lot of good info with many home-brew tips. Sounds like you are on the right track. Find a 300 HD or Industrial (my dad's came out of a swather) for all the forged goodies. Luckily the 300 has a 4" bore so pistons from JE or whoever won't kill you. MSD makes a cheap boost retard. Definitely go with the blow-thru instead of the draw-through configuration. Call Holley for info, they have floats available that can withstand being pressurized. I think they will tell you that 600 cfm is way too small. It takes both air and fuel to make horsepower. For a B*ick 231 they suggested a 650DP to begin with so maybe you should start with a 750DP?
The whole trick to this is creating a fuel delivery system that richens the mixture with boost. If it goes lean it goes boom. Start over. If you don't like Holley's, take a look at a Predator. They are tricky to calibrate for this application but can it can be done and they can flow ALOT of air and fuel.
Also, read through what some of these other guys have done:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/8668/index.htm
My favorite is the twin turbo 351W tbird.
Good Luck,
Brett

 

##### Datson needs to calm down and bea little more modest. Well, thats my opinion anyway. The man thinks far too much of his knowledge.... And things like "Belt-Driven Turbochargers are my idea" and when I asked him what difference between that and a supercharger he says nothing.... Well, how is it his idea? Sure its a homebrew supercharger but i'm pretty sure he's not the first to do it........


Anyway, as to carb sizing i'm going to go out on a limb and ask why you would increase the size of carb? Wiht a larger carb you'll still have the low-rpm problems associated with them. After all, a super/turbocharger doesn't increase volume of air going into your motor (much anyway) but it increases the density. Even the TT351W that you like is running a 600cfm holley. Why in the world would an engine that turns less RPMs and is smaller all around need a larger carb?

Also, if you look at the predator webpage (and talk to the people there) they will tell you that the predator carb can't be used blowthrough, only drawthrough.


-=Whittey=-

 

Whittey,
I'll defer to you here as the expert. That Dic Datsun is something, ain't he? Being an ol'fart I guess I automatically view everything through an automatic BS filter, and keep the nuggets.
Carb size? Good question. To get to the point, Holley recommended a 650DP for a blow-through 231 ci engine. The torque curve for that motor gave no reason to buzz over 5500 rpms. That size came from Holley's real-world experience. If you didn't want to buzz a 300 anywhere near 5500 rpms, you could get by with a much smaller carb. The info I've collected over the years suggests that more power is to be had by (seemingly) over-carburetoring the engine. I have no formula, just anecdotal info. Apparently at some point the carb itself becomes the restriction, and by moving up in CFM capacity you move that restriction point up.
You're right the Tbird only runs a 600DP with a additional boost injector downstream. I would be interested what a change to a 750DP would bring (good and bad).
I guess it's a good thing I piped up about the Predator. I asked Dale and Amy over at Predator. Not only does it work, it works real well. They've run one blow-thru on a drag car at 37 lbs. boost. But it's probably not the right carb for this application.
Adios,
Brett

 

i have installed a turbo set-up on an 84 f250 4x4 300 six. played with it for months getting it just right. not perfect at the end but pretty darn fine if i do say so myself. it was not easy. funny thing, after getting it dialed in and happy, i bought an 88 f250 4x4 hd 351w,extra cab. got 2 kids, so the turbo project was recently stripped from the truck and makes it's home in the corner of my garage. selling the 84 with a turbo set-up would probably make it worth less than non-turbo. life is all about change and i'm already dreaming of hotting up my 88. sure do miss the turbo whine. have to say the power was well over the output of this 351 in it's current shape. no, i'm not crazy, i just like a challenge and ity was a good one. costly too. richard

 

I too like a challange. I have heard that the turbo whine is a beautiful sound. But call me old fashoned american, I like the sound my truck makes with the current components. Sounds kinda hopped-up-v-8-ish but these 300 I-6's most definatly have a sound of their own. i can't wait till I get the turbo's working on it. but one question: could I use my current edelbrock 600cfm carb on that turbo setup. i knonw a holley double pumper is a much better carb but I was thinking that if I can get the stuff together I would run it on the edelbrock for a little while but most definatly not over 5-8 psi boost. :/

 

I currently have a turbo on my 300 six, and it powers a 4x4 E350 van. Couldn't be happier with the setup. All I can say for a suggestion, is do alot of research, and engineer everything to what you want, not what someone tries telling you what you want. There are alot of variables to selecting the right setup, but you will find tuning the setup to work will be the biggest challenge.

 

OK! Time to re-type all my thoughts from yesterday and hopefully the forum won't b0rk my reply this time

Brett,
Was that 231 a race motor? I can almost guarantee that motor doesn't idle well. Would you put that size carb on an N/A motor? As I said above, the motor does not draw in (much) more air, just more denseair.

Overcarbing is all about lowering the pressure drop across the carb. The problem is that when you use too large of a carb the pressure drop is too low to get a proper fual/air mixture. This does not change on a forced air engine. If anything you'll lean your engine out unless you grossly overcompensate. Thats one of the things I noticed about Dik Datsons clique. They just overjet the hell out of it instead of properly tuning their engines. Of course thats fine for them (drag racing only) but that doesn't quite work the same on a street engine.

Also, don't forget that a 750 on a 351 (higher spinning and larger engine, never mind that a V8 typically can handle more carb than an I6 can(empirically)). And he used the carb as normal (jetted slightly rich for safetys sake) with the mods required for pressurizing, and the injector for more fuel. You can also run a HUGE pump shot for the same thing, but it'd likely have bad response till boost rises.

I am glad that you brought up the predator thing. I checked their website a while ago and they said no dice, and when I emailed to confirm (I hate taking no for an answer) they still said no dice. Do you have any linkage to information about the blowthrough predators and needed modifications (if any) for them?

Richard, 4x4E350:
Do either of you have a website with pics and ideas and whatnot that you'd like to share? If you need webspace I can provide it for you.

Kameleon,
The edelbrock can be used but don't forget that you'll be running a lower compression motor, etc, so N/A if it doesn't drive nicely then i'd think about switching real quick because you'll still have the problems when running boost. You can find howtos all over the net about modifying the carter-style carbs for blowthrough.


-=Whittey=-

 

Whittey,
I will again defer to you as the expert here. I've understood from the beginning your point about the increase in density.(And I'd still like to try the bigger carb at the strip.)
The sure would like to try the Predator. It has been many years since I researched all this and have thrown out most of the info. I don't know why they are now telling you it won't work. Have you actually talked to either Dale or Amy? I would very much be interested in why the change of tune. From what I remember it was no different from calibrating one normally. I just reread the manual, and they claim it will work for a 300 ci. engine on up. They have alcohol kits for it, so you sure don't have to worry about inadequate fuel flow. The main draw back is you can only have one fuel curve (no power circuit) so economy suffers.
On a different note one thing the AFB has for it is the secondary velocity valve, which function like vacuum secondaries. On the street that sure makes a difference to get rid of bog. And you can always modify them to make them open sooner or later. Also, the primaries are the same for the 500 and 625 CFM carbs, so I see no advantage to buying the smaller carb there.
My hat is off to those of you who have successfully put one together.
Adios,
Brett