I picked up a used rebuilt 390 to put in my F350 and found out the heads are 14 bolt pattern. The casting # is C7AE-A which is suppose to be bigger valves I believe. My question is are these heads GT or better than stock. I can't find any exhaust manifolds to use with the 14 bolt pattern. Do you think I could trade anybody for a pair of stock 390 heads like D2TE AA just so I can get this engine installed in my truck. I have my old engine, with the stock heads, but was going to sell it for a core to recoup some of my cost for the rebuilt engine. I am trying to go the least expensive route. Any suggestions or options are greatly appreciated.

 

C7AE-A heads will work on your truck. When you say 14 bolt pattern, you have a top and bottom bolt hole on each exhaust port and some on the side, right? Just use the top and bottom ones. IF (Big IF), your truck came with the center exhaust cross over then it is a true truck engine (FT not FE) these heads are different and require specific heads, however this is not common.

The C7AE-A head is a prefered head for truck use, correct size runners, correct size chamber. The valves are not different from standard FE valves, however the FT valves are smaller. You should see a small area between the valves inside the chamber, the HiPo heads with large valves look as if the valves almost touch with almost no area between the valves.

I would have hardened exhaust seats installed in the heads before you use them, someone might have done this already, but I'd have it checked. The cost is about $100 and is needed for unleaded gas.
Other than the hardened seats, I'd check the seals and run them. You don't need to use more than 2 bolts per exhaust runner, the extra bolt holes were for smaller cars that needed different exhaust manifolds.

 

Karljay, the front and back ports are like you said with the hole on top and botton. My old exhauast manifolds match up to those, but the two center ports, there is a hole on top and then a hole on each side of the port diagonally with no hole on the bottom. Because there is no bottom hole it won't match up. I guess I could tap new holes, but not sure if a good idea.

 

Andy, could you do me a favor and check that out again. On the 14 bolt GT head, the two end ports have the vertical bolt pattern but the top bolts are about ¼” lower than the standard 8 bolt head. The lower bolts should be in the same location. Header manufacturers usually slot the flange in those two locations to be able to fit both style heads. The 16 bolt CJ head has the end bolt holes back in the original positions along with the extra cross bolts.

Barry

 

Barry, your right. The top hole is lower then the stock exhaust manifold. I used a exhaust manifold gasket and the top hole is lower than the gasket hole. Also, I forgot to mention I do have one exhaust manifold that came with the engine. It has the 2 horizontal diagonal holes for the first 3 ports and the back one is vertical. The casting number is #C6OE 9430. Is this a truck exhasut manifold?

 

That's the GT car manifold for the passenger side, originally used in the '66 Fairlane. That style manifold was also used on the regular 390's installed in the intermediates. Did you get the spacer that goes with it? Frankly, that is the worst flowing manifold for the FE, more so than the standard log. The driver's side GT manifold flows a little better but if used on the F100/250 trucks it dumps right into the clutch linkage. Not sure about an F350 though. The truck logs are not that bad, at least they have larger outlets than the passenger logs.

Barry

 

Barry, are talking about intake manifold or cylinder heads or exhaust manifold?

 

Barry, after re-reading your post I see your talking about the exhaust manifold. Do think I should advertise in the paper the heaads and see if I could trade somebody for some stock heads so I can use my excisting exhaust manifolds from my old engine? Open to any options. It is going to be to hard I think to find exhaust manifolds to fit those heads. You think they are GT?

 

I need a little more information on your two engines.

Rebuilt Engine:
1. How do you know it is a 390?
2. Is it a recent rebuild with 0 or low miles?
3. Do you know who or where it was rebuilt?
4. What is the casting number on the intake manifold? Is there a large “S” next to it? Two or four barrel?
5. What is the casting number on the block (by the starter) and date code? (under oil filter adapter)
6. On the back of the block, is there a partial VIN number?
7. Do the heads have hardened seats installed?
8. Is this engine just sitting around waiting to be installed?

Old Engine:
1. What size is it?
2. What is the casting number on the intake manifold? Two or four barrel?
3. What is the casting number on the block (by the starter) and date code? (under oil filter adapter)
4. Any other block numbers visible? “352” “501” or a mirror image?
5. What is the casting number on the heads? (between the center two spark plugs)
6. Is this engine just sitting around waiting to be returned for a core?

Sorry for all the questions but am trying to figure the best way out of your dilemma.

Barry

 

Barry, here are the answers to most of your quesitons:
Rebuilt engine:
1) Pretty comfortable it is. Have rebuilt them before and familiar with them.
2) Supposedly has about 27k miles on it. Went through a few people before I got it.
3) Do not know who rebuilt it. The engine was fairly clean and you can see the gasket material pretty easy, not to dirty.
4) Edelbrock Performer manifold. Also is running a Mallory Unilite Electronic Ignition distributor.
5) 63 352 by oil adapter.
6) Couldn't get to it because of the clutch and flywheel. I had just put it on. If you want I can take it off to check.
7) Don't know if heads have hardened seats.
8) Engine is sitting in my garage on cherry picker.

Note: I did hear the engine run before I bought it. Installed in a 67 ford pickup. Did not blow smoke and sounded very healthy. I think there may be a mild cam in it. I think somebody put some thought in the engine before they built it.

Old Engine:
1) Original 1976 390, 95,000 miles
2) 4 barrel, ford mainfold # D5TE 9425MB
3) 105 10 and 105 16 I believe
4) D2TE AA
5) Engine sitting in garage. Have in paper for a core to recoup expense from other engine purchase.

Note: The engine was loosing power to bent pushrods. Also, probably have flat cam due to vacume power booster not working very well. One of my customers is a car dealership and they put it on a scope last summer for me. I was just going to do a top end rebuild to the engine when I came across this other engine for $400. Thought it was a good deal at the time.

Hope this info helps. Thanks for all the help.

 

Thanks for finding out all that info. You say you heard the rebuilt engine run in a ’67 pickup, how did they run the exhaust, did it have headers on it? If you could find headers that fit, it might be the easiest way to get you going. One other thing, double-check the motor mount pads on the sides of the block to see if it uses four bolts instead of the older style two bolt.

Now about your old engine, the 105 block has thicker cylinder walls and extra main web reinforcements. They can usually be bored out to a 428 after a sonic check. The cylinder heads are standard truck units but they are pretty good for towing, small runners for velocity and a decent quench. The problem with these engines is that the piston sits too low and doesn’t take advantage of the quench. With decent pistons, this engine is a winner.

Now here’s the hard part, what to do. If you’re a collector like me, I would save the old engine and not give it away just for a core, it’s worth more than that. If you can’t find headers to fit the rebuilt engine in your F350, than take off the GT heads and rebuild your D2 heads with hardened seats or find another set. They’re easy to find but if not, the C8AE-H heads are pretty much identical. One last thought, you could try to find the GT exhaust manifolds and “make” them work. There getting a little pricey though but less than headers.

Barry

 

Barry, when the truck was running they had those passenger exhaust manifolds hooked to it. See my above post about the exhaust manifold. I only have one.

Where would be a good place to find headers for the other engine or exhaust manifolds? Would I look for car or truck GT manifold? You think those 14 bolt heads are worth anything? Maybe I can trade someone for some decent stock heads or maybe a machine shop.

If I put the DT heads on the rebuilt engine, do you think performance would suffer much from the smaller valves? It seems like someone built the engine up a little.

Thanks again for all the help. You learn something new all the time. This is one of my work trucks and I'm trying to get it back on the road ASAP, but with minimal cost.

 

If they had those GT manifolds hooked up in the ‘67, you should be able to do it too I would think. Those manifolds were only offered in the intermediates, never in the trucks. On the one manifold that you have, do you also have the spacer that goes on the end? If you don’t, it’s useless.

For headers, try http://stans-headers.com/ or http://www.sandersonheaders.com/ and tell them what you have. For the GT manifolds, try the classifieds, Ford sites on the Internet, or Ford Power Parts (562) 921-5300.

The 14 bolt GT heads are worth it to someone doing a correct restoration or just rebuilding their FE in an intermediate chassis. If your GT heads are bone stock, they have the same valve sizes as the regular D2 heads. The chamber sizes are very close too, only 1cc between the two heads so I don’t think you would notice anything.

One last option, I know you can drill and tap the bottom two holes for the center exhaust ports on the GT heads with no problem. I don’t know if there is enough “meat” to drill and tap the top holes for the end ports though. They might be too close to the lowered holes and break through.

I think headers or switching heads are you most likely choices unless you find those manifolds.

Barry