another STROKER thread 427 0r 443
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
another STROKER thread 427 0r 443
Thanks Guys!!!! I still haven't given up on the mopar rods yet. My machinist has my block now, and he is going to check it to see how far we can bore it out, so it can take a chev. 400 piston. I think that this seems to be the most cubes for the buck. He is doing all the oil mods, line boring, etc. I may just buy a 390 crank this week, and take it to him to offset grind. I'm going to have to wait till after Xmas to buy some good heads, but I'll start another thread on them for advice.With the 400 piston, and the mopar rod, what is the cubes?
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
another STROKER thread 427 0r 443
OK, Thanks for the good info. I guess my 369/390 block won't work w/ a chev. 400 piston. Just have to wait to call the machine shop when they open this morning. I'm going to fax a copy of the info to him this morn. Maybe I'll try to find a 428 block, or go w/ a smaller piston. He has already done some work on the 390 block though. I'm building this motor before I have a car to put it in, so I have some time to decide. Thanks again!!
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 962
Likes: 2
From: Collierville, TN
another STROKER thread 427 0r 443
You can easily get 422 cubes out of a 390 block by boring it .060" and stroking it with a 410/428 crankshaft. You can get 428 if your block will take .080" over, though conventional wisdom is that most pre-74 blocks won't go that far safely.
I think df has also said that a 390 crank can be offset ground to match or exceed the stroke of the 410/428 crank. That may be cheaper, as 410/428 cranks are getting pricey.
If you can get to 4.05" of stroke by using a Chrysler crank or offset grinding a FE crank, you'd have 430 cid with your 390 block at .060 over and 434 at .080 over.
Note that rod length has nothing to do with displacement -- it just positions the piston in the bore. Displacement is solely a function of stroke and piston diameter. Longer rods will, however, generate higher compression ratios (because there is less combustion space left above the piston at TDC). Longer rods are also theoretically better because they result in less rod angularity, which means lower friction and less stress. However, longer rods also tend to be heavier (bad) and require longer bores (which of course makes the block heavier - also bad) or shorter pistons (which while lighter may also be weaker, especially if dished or if valve reliefs need to be cut). Engine designers do their best to balance all these factors.
I think df has also said that a 390 crank can be offset ground to match or exceed the stroke of the 410/428 crank. That may be cheaper, as 410/428 cranks are getting pricey.
If you can get to 4.05" of stroke by using a Chrysler crank or offset grinding a FE crank, you'd have 430 cid with your 390 block at .060 over and 434 at .080 over.
Note that rod length has nothing to do with displacement -- it just positions the piston in the bore. Displacement is solely a function of stroke and piston diameter. Longer rods will, however, generate higher compression ratios (because there is less combustion space left above the piston at TDC). Longer rods are also theoretically better because they result in less rod angularity, which means lower friction and less stress. However, longer rods also tend to be heavier (bad) and require longer bores (which of course makes the block heavier - also bad) or shorter pistons (which while lighter may also be weaker, especially if dished or if valve reliefs need to be cut). Engine designers do their best to balance all these factors.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,931
Likes: 12
From: SW Michigan
another STROKER thread 427 0r 443
GrumpMark, offset grinding is somewhat timeconsuming and costs more than normal, but the rod journals on the FE (2.438) offer lots of room to work. Yes, a 428/410 crank would be easier, but they are becoming rather scarce. If I had another 428 crank, I think I would offset grind that as well, a 4.125-4.150 stroke would be sweet. You are limited on how far you can go by where are the oil passages drilled in the crank. I've seen 390 cranks out to 4.05, and 428 cranks out to 4.150, but saw a 428 crank grind through the oil passage while trying for a 4.200 stroke with 2.200 rod journals. Stick with known combinations. If your block is not thick enough for the 4.155 bore, how about the stroker with chrysler rods and chevy 350 pistons ? There are many forgings and hypereutectics available in 4.060 bore size and some as short as 1.00 pin height. Check out Keith Black pistons, there maybe other oppourtunitys there. DF
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
another STROKER thread 427 0r 443
Thanks for the info everyone. I got word today, that I can't use the chev. 400 piston in my block, from my machinist. Since yesterday, I bought a 390 crank, and the mopar rods, and dropped them off at the shop. I will have to use another piston, but I'm going for it now. Some of this work will have to wait till after Xmas, but I'm getting a good start on the shortblock. Thanks again
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Top 6 Best Deals Available on New Fords & Lincolns Right Now
Brett Foote
This Hennessey Takes the Expedition Tremor's Off-Roading Capability to the Next Level
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals
Joe Kucinski
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership
Brett Foote
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches
Pouria Savadkouei
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained
Brett Foote
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
another STROKER thread 427 0r 443
I was reading a thread by gtex on a 410 build, and a stroker kit was linked to on ebay. I was in the middle of stroking an FE with on offset ground 390 crank, and chrysler rods, 428 block(i only had a 390 block) chev. 400 pistons, to 443 cubic inches, in Dec 2001 until I had some health problems, which caused me to pause my plans. I am just now starting again. I replied to my last post, because there a lot of good info here. I went through 2 390 cranks at a local machine shop, and they couldn't get the grinding right, and I was about to buy one online when I had to give it up for awhile. Any one else done this ?
P.S. It's good to be back
P.S. It's good to be back
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
From: South Carolina
another STROKER thread 427 0r 443
Been sitting here reading through this thread and I guess I probably ought to just keep my nose out of it but can't stand it any longer so I just have to ask... do you REALLY want chevy parts in your FE? Just ain't right. What's up with that, anyway? How big of an advantage could that possibly have that would make it worth it? I know everyone's different and I sure ain't trying to get on your bad side... it's just that around my house that's about the worst thing you could do to your Ford. I mean, come on... they ARE the enemy, ya know!
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 8
From: Missouri
another STROKER thread 427 0r 443
A piston is a piston. Its all aftermarket and there isn't a ford or chevy thing about it in my opinion. The pistons in my 390 are made by TRW. Nothing for about them. They just happen to have the right deck height, pin diameter and dish. I wouln't dare brag about having chevy pistons if I had them but I wouldn't feel bad flying through the traps faster than the other guy.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
From: South Carolina
another STROKER thread 427 0r 443
Just asking, that's all. Ain't trying to steer Grump's thread in the wrong direction. I guess I've just seen one too many Fords with Chevy motors in them. Starts to burn after a while, and the sheer mention of a chevy part, no matter who manufactured it, in an FE just re-kindles that burn. Like I said, everyone's different and has their own opinion... might would make for an interesting poll, though. Sorry, Grump, for adding all of this chatter to your thread.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,931
Likes: 12
From: SW Michigan
another STROKER thread 427 0r 443
Wellcome back, Grump. The first thing to do is find a competant shop. If the first shop you had 'went through' 2 390 cranks cause they could get the grinding right, they must not know how to do the job. I would be sending them a bill for the price of two cranks or demanding that they find 2 cranks and buy them for you. It isn't your fault that they don't know how to do their job, and you shouldn't have to pay for it. Then never go back to that shop again. But things for us FE guys are differant now that Scat is selling new cast cranks for the FE. You can buy one ready to go with 4.00, 4.125, 0r 4.250 stroke. I think they sell for about 600$. Do you need help finding one ? DF