Why so many Trolls?
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
Likes: 3
From: Campbell River, B.C.
I get your point. I drive a beat up 21 year old diesel that gets 17+ mpg @ 80 mph, but could it out pull an 08 PSD? Heck no. The thing is more poeple by big diesels for power and torque then those who buy them for MPGs, who do you think ford will cater to?
Horse power is easy to get, just make the engine bigger, or make it swallow more fuel/air mixture.
BUT, something that no one in the auto industry really wants to talk about is that the engine as we know it has not really changed since the Ford model-T. EFI has made engines self tuning to a degree, but the max effeciency is no different than 50 years ago, its just the limitation of the engine type itself.
Whats the biggest loss in a diesel engine?? the exhaust? the intake? the DPF??? Nope, its the radiator (and other heat losses), just like any other piston engine that gives off heat.
If fuel economy increaced at the same pace as power over the years, we would not be driving vehicles powered by internal combustion engines, the technology itself is not capable of more than ~25-35% efficiency without astronomical cost.
I hope i didn't sound too much like a troll.....
Horse power is easy to get, just make the engine bigger, or make it swallow more fuel/air mixture.
BUT, something that no one in the auto industry really wants to talk about is that the engine as we know it has not really changed since the Ford model-T. EFI has made engines self tuning to a degree, but the max effeciency is no different than 50 years ago, its just the limitation of the engine type itself.
Whats the biggest loss in a diesel engine?? the exhaust? the intake? the DPF??? Nope, its the radiator (and other heat losses), just like any other piston engine that gives off heat.
If fuel economy increaced at the same pace as power over the years, we would not be driving vehicles powered by internal combustion engines, the technology itself is not capable of more than ~25-35% efficiency without astronomical cost.
I hope i didn't sound too much like a troll.....
New User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
I agree with PDIESEL. I have owned 4 Ford trucks. This is my 5th one and my first diesel. For years all we have heard was how great the gas mileage was on a diesel. Unfortunately, my 08 dosen't quite get good gas mileage. I have over 8500 miles on it and get around 10-11 MPG driving around town in a rural city (not stop and go) and I dont have a heavy foot. I towed my 11,000 lbs. trailer from California to New York and got 5 MPG. The best I got during that trip was 7 MPG. Thats just wrong. I love this truck, Best truck ever, MPG stinks so far. I posted something in hopes of finding a possible solution to my MPG problem. If only posting something once (cause I'm new) and trying to get help makes me a troll, then call me a troll. I've been called worse.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 695
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by bf250
but in a world where it is expected that new designs should get better mpg, it is dissappointing to see them get less than the previous.
the whole point of the 6.4 was emissions, so along with that a reasonable person would expect at least the same mpg as the previous engine model, not burn more in the "emissions" engine.
the whole point of the 6.4 was emissions, so along with that a reasonable person would expect at least the same mpg as the previous engine model, not burn more in the "emissions" engine.
i dont think many peeps expected better MPG with the 6.4 because of the new emissions equip.. there was lots of talk before its release about the regen burning extra fuel and whatnot.
sorry if the previous posters got bad 6.0's. mine has been flawless for 17K(used powerservice since new and drive it like i stole it). in over a year i have had mine and the almost 2 years i did research leading up to the purchase, i have yet to run across a 6.0 owner that has had a major problem. i live in the land of the superduty's too, more of them around here than any other vehicle.
90%+ of the 6.0's dont have problems.
90%+ of the 6.4 owners complain about fuel milage. you do the math.
then some tools get on here and say oh no there fine mine gets 15 city and 18-19 highway.
Last edited by killaford; Sep 30, 2007 at 08:00 AM.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
From: at Work
Originally Posted by cmpd1781
Especially in the price at the pump as I saw today......$2.99 low, and mostly around $3.07......
So fuel is getting more expensive, and if you believe the environmentalists, inexorably in shorter supply; and the new trucks are getting worse and worse mileage?.......
So fuel is getting more expensive, and if you believe the environmentalists, inexorably in shorter supply; and the new trucks are getting worse and worse mileage?.......
Diesel is relative to the barrel of oil price...83$ per barrel is the problem. Now, can't we get a clean burning 6.4 that gets 15% more mpg than last years make?
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
Likes: 3
From: Campbell River, B.C.
Originally Posted by fordfish
Oh, I thought Congress mandated better fuel economy, but I see the tree huggers have first priority, or control the congress????
Diesel is relative to the barrel of oil price...83$ per barrel is the problem. Now, can't we get a clean burning 6.4 that gets 15% more mpg than last years make?
Diesel is relative to the barrel of oil price...83$ per barrel is the problem. Now, can't we get a clean burning 6.4 that gets 15% more mpg than last years make?
If lawmakers want to get green votes, they will mandate emissions regulations, not fuel economy. Doing both would be akin to holding a gun to the auto industry's head (becuase the piston engine itself would have to be phased out), something that has be thwarted in the past by the auto lobby (californa's zero emission mandate was intended to bring electric cars into the open, but was struck down).
Last edited by David85; Sep 30, 2007 at 02:04 PM.
More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 548
Likes: 7
I suspect that a number of people have legitimate complaints / problems with the product. Voicing those issues does not make them trolls.
I have run Ford trucks for a long time. I purchased a 2007 truck last winter. I think the new truck falls short in a number of areas while making some improvements. Identifying the issues with new truck (or with my truck) does not make me a troll. It makes me a realist.
-Mike
I have run Ford trucks for a long time. I purchased a 2007 truck last winter. I think the new truck falls short in a number of areas while making some improvements. Identifying the issues with new truck (or with my truck) does not make me a troll. It makes me a realist.
-Mike
Senior User
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by 02PSD4ME
MY 6.0L was a POS! 
I guess I'M a TROLL.
I personally know 4 people that live within 20 miles of me that have had 6.0L equipped Super Duty trucks purchased back by Ford. I will never recommend one to anyone. I guess we are all TROLLS
Mine was just purchased back on 8/28/07 because it was a LEMON.
I guess I'M a TROLL.I personally know 4 people that live within 20 miles of me that have had 6.0L equipped Super Duty trucks purchased back by Ford. I will never recommend one to anyone. I guess we are all TROLLS
Mine was just purchased back on 8/28/07 because it was a LEMON.
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
From: Kansas
Originally Posted by 1968Mustang
Well, if you don't own a superduty, then why do we still hear from you. There will be problems with anything new. I bought one of the first 5000 2005 Mustang GTs, and yes there were issues, but I knew what I was doing and loved the car. My 08 F350 KR is on order, Job 2, and I have followed all of the 08 forums, and I am still ordering. I have loved my 6.0s and still do. Now I pull a 11,000# horse trailer, so I can either get something that will pull it, or drive a toyota and pay someone to pull my horses. I think we are all here for legitimate issues, but I think the word TROLLS fits just right. Must be a boring life, if that is all they have to do. It is kind of strange someone would get rid of their vehicle over a month ago and still follow the forums. Some people just need to belong to something. The 08 is a beautiful truck and I am looking forward to driving mine!
New User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Anywhere, USA
I know I have not posted much in this forum. I hope this does not make me a troll. I have owned nothing but Ford trucks starting with a '85 F-150 with the v-8 302, which I loved. I sold it and bought a '01 F-250 7.3 diesel and loved that truck. I came to this site to research the new 6.4 diesel and ended up buying an '08 F-350 crew cab dually 6.4 diesel 4x4. I knew that my gas mileage was going to suck. The information I gleaned from this site was priceless when I went in and bought it. Thank you.
I know that I am not on the site a lot, but from time to time I stop in and check it out. I unfortunately am separated from the truck until next month as the wife has it in South Dakota while I work here in CA. As soon as I get it back I plan on having airbags installed along with a 5th wheel hitch as it will soon be pulling a 36' 5th wheel through out the U.S. I have researched airbags on this site and thanks to those with knowledge in this area, I have narrowed down my list.
I am on other forums and I do know that there are troubles with trolls and unfortunately this is always a problem in an internet community. But to say having a low post count constitutes one to troll status is weak. We all must start somewhere.
I know that I am not on the site a lot, but from time to time I stop in and check it out. I unfortunately am separated from the truck until next month as the wife has it in South Dakota while I work here in CA. As soon as I get it back I plan on having airbags installed along with a 5th wheel hitch as it will soon be pulling a 36' 5th wheel through out the U.S. I have researched airbags on this site and thanks to those with knowledge in this area, I have narrowed down my list.
I am on other forums and I do know that there are troubles with trolls and unfortunately this is always a problem in an internet community. But to say having a low post count constitutes one to troll status is weak. We all must start somewhere.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 695
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by OPDSGT
I know I have not posted much in this forum. I hope this does not make me a troll. I have owned nothing but Ford trucks starting with a '85 F-150 with the v-8 302, which I loved. I sold it and bought a '01 F-250 7.3 diesel and loved that truck. I came to this site to research the new 6.4 diesel and ended up buying an '08 F-350 crew cab dually 6.4 diesel 4x4. I knew that my gas mileage was going to suck. The information I gleaned from this site was priceless when I went in and bought it. Thank you.
I know that I am not on the site a lot, but from time to time I stop in and check it out. I unfortunately am separated from the truck until next month as the wife has it in South Dakota while I work here in CA. As soon as I get it back I plan on having airbags installed along with a 5th wheel hitch as it will soon be pulling a 36' 5th wheel through out the U.S. I have researched airbags on this site and thanks to those with knowledge in this area, I have narrowed down my list.
I am on other forums and I do know that there are troubles with trolls and unfortunately this is always a problem in an internet community. But to say having a low post count constitutes one to troll status is weak. We all must start somewhere.
I know that I am not on the site a lot, but from time to time I stop in and check it out. I unfortunately am separated from the truck until next month as the wife has it in South Dakota while I work here in CA. As soon as I get it back I plan on having airbags installed along with a 5th wheel hitch as it will soon be pulling a 36' 5th wheel through out the U.S. I have researched airbags on this site and thanks to those with knowledge in this area, I have narrowed down my list.
I am on other forums and I do know that there are troubles with trolls and unfortunately this is always a problem in an internet community. But to say having a low post count constitutes one to troll status is weak. We all must start somewhere.
you my freind are the definition of realist.
the opposite of a troll.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
From: at Work
Originally Posted by bf250
but in a world where it is expected that new designs should get better mpg, it is dissappointing to see them get less than the previous.
the whole point of the 6.4 was emissions, so along with that a reasonable person would expect at least the same mpg as the previous engine model, not burn more in the "emissions" engine.
the whole point of the 6.4 was emissions, so along with that a reasonable person would expect at least the same mpg as the previous engine model, not burn more in the "emissions" engine.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
Likes: 3
From: Campbell River, B.C.
Me too.......
It is possible to produce a more complete burn inside the engine itself, in fact that was the whole point of the diesel engine in the first place. Injecting the fuel at TDC in an O2 rich environment means its more likely to burn all the way compared to a gasser. Running lean burn (i.e. diesel cycle) and adding a turbo should only make things better.
If emissions are high, then make the engine burn more efficiently, don't just put a filter on the tailpipe!
Some nut bar politician actually tried to have DPFs installed on older diesels in the area that I live....
It is possible to produce a more complete burn inside the engine itself, in fact that was the whole point of the diesel engine in the first place. Injecting the fuel at TDC in an O2 rich environment means its more likely to burn all the way compared to a gasser. Running lean burn (i.e. diesel cycle) and adding a turbo should only make things better.
If emissions are high, then make the engine burn more efficiently, don't just put a filter on the tailpipe!
Some nut bar politician actually tried to have DPFs installed on older diesels in the area that I live....
Last edited by horsepuller; Oct 10, 2007 at 06:03 PM. Reason: removed dup. photo quote
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by bf250
but in a world where it is expected that new designs should get better mpg, it is dissappointing to see them get less than the previous.
the whole point of the 6.4 was emissions, so along with that a reasonable person would expect at least the same mpg as the previous engine model, not burn more in the "emissions" engine.
the whole point of the 6.4 was emissions, so along with that a reasonable person would expect at least the same mpg as the previous engine model, not burn more in the "emissions" engine.
A Little less MPG but a lot more torque and a little more HP than any previous model!!!!!