I don't know why the tread was closed. I wasn't trying to get legal advise just trying to get more information on my pinging problem. Thanks for the heads up toypuller!!!

 

Here ya go. I had to do a search

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...ht=arbitration

 

You said the "magic words". That's why it was closed.

So tell us, what's happening with your F-150? When is your pinging happening? Does it change with different engine loads?

Maybe someone here may have a possible solution.

Also, have yoiu taken your truck to another dealer?

 

Thanks Wildcard 30!
My truck pings constantly. It started out just doing it under load (uphill or towing) and know its all the time. I've used every grade of fuel and five different gas stations (including the all wonderful and beloved Chevron) and that has had no effect. The dealer has tested my gas, replaced spark plugs, replaced the PCM (twice), EEC (quick test), DCL display/PID monitor test, recorder test, reprogrammed the computer, installed a program to mirror the computer and record my driving, tested the fuel pump pressure, KOER and KOER tests, and replaced the knock sensor. And the results were: It pings worse. The Ford engineer whom was assigned to my case had them do a borescope and declared that my truck was fine. It amazes me that he can conclude this with out driving it or inspecting it. After this, Ford told me that the problem was in the computer program and that they would have to rewrite the program it fix it. They said it would take a year to do so. At this point, I started down the road that has lead me to the "magic word". If anyone has any insight into this, I would appreciate it.

 

I can't offer legal advice, but as far as the mechanical side, it seems like the testing has been pretty thorough.

Not trying to say the problem doesn't exist, but are you sure you're talking about true "pinging" a.k.a. engine knock due to pre-ignition or detonation of the fuel? I would think it would be physically hard for the engine to ping all the time. For example at idle, or during light throttle acceleration, coasting, etc - especially when the engine is cold and you are running high octane fuel, I just can't see where there would be enough heat or pressure to detonate the fuel.

Some questions I would have are: Are you physically hearing this knock or is a sensor recording it? If it is one or the other (hearing or sensing) is the other method backing it up? Did the spark plugs originally pulled from the engine show signs of detonation? Do you have abnormally low or high gas mileage? Do you have any intake, engine, exhaust, or computer mods? Does the engine coolant temp stay normal? (a true measurement of the engine block, not the "L-normal-H" gauge or the temp of the radiator. Is the ECU showing any codes? It should record misfires - I believe, it will also record what cylinder. If it does, are the misfires occurring randomly or one specific cylinder. Does the truck use a lot of oil? Excessive oil use can lead to carbon deposits, but excessive oil vaporized with the gasoline can also lower octane rating of the fuel. Do you test emissions, are they up to spec? I would expect the pinging (or conditions that may lead up to it) to show up as high NOx - Generally the hotter the combustion, the higher the NOx concentration, so if you have very hot combustion and or detonation, NOx will usually peg.

Not trying to give you the 5th degree - just trying to come up with some questions that may help you or the dealer go further to locating the cause.

One last step may be to run a little E85 ethanol through the truck if it is available in your area. That stuff is 105 octane and burns cooler than gas - I run it in my car at 11:1 compression and 15psi turbo boost - no pinging!


What ever the source of the noise, I don't really buy the answer of "it's in the computer program and we have to fix it" - there must be a million of those engines out there with the same program - it doesn't make sense that yours would need a special version.

Good luck with what ever comes of your proceedings.

 

I agree with almost everything you said except for trying the E85. E85 contains more oxygen and you need to run more of it to get the same results. I agree that it is much higher in octane but if he goes lean, he will get detonation. I would try some good old octane booster (like Torco not crap that claims to be octane booster) or some leaded race fuel ( a little is not going to hurt you, and it smells good ) But I would do very little of anything to extreme becuase you don't want to hurt your chances in court. I would try some Torco Octane booster ($20 a can, 5 gal will make like 104 octane or something with a 32oz bottle), that would be your safest bet! If it is still pinging (if it is true pinging to begin with), then I don't know?

 

I guess I shouldn't say it pings all the time but under all types of acceleration (hard, normal, loaded, or unloaded). When it does ping it sounds like it's going to blow apart (very loud). I took the mechanic and service guy for a ride in the truck because the were doubting me about what I was hearing. The computer wasn't recording the instances and there weren't any codes. After the ride they were scratching their heads even more. That's when the really started changing parts and computer(s). I've tried various levels of octane gas and booster and they have had little effect. I do get good gas milage (16-17 mpg around town and 20 on the freeway). I don't buy the computer program story either. I think it was their attempt to pacify my and make me go away. The truck doesn't burn oil and I haven't done any mods to it. I'm at a total loss. I just want Ford to step up to the plate and make things right. I don't think I'm asking to much for a truck with 7400 miles on it to run properly.

Thanks for the feed back and I really appreciate everyone help!!!

 

Wow, don't you just love all the computer stuff and sensors now a days. I am sure they will do you right, even if it is a hard road. They are a big company and 1 truck to them is nothing. I have been dealing with my dealer in Columbia, MO on a power split window that was supposed to be installed the day after I bought my truck, well, almost 2 months later no window and no word of when it will be here. I am sure they will do me right, if not, I have a lot of free time on my hands at work and I can make all kinds of mess for them. It is probably partly my fault it has been this long. I waited until 2 hours ago to call and speak to a manger, I was giving the parts department and my salesmen the benifit of the doubt, but when they stopped returning my calls, I got a little mad. Called the manager, I will know something by the end of today. Either my money + install back, an aftermarket window, or the one I ordered......honestly, at this point, I just want "a" damn window.

 

Im guessing the reason your thread was closed was because you were asking about the pinging ...to help support your case against FOMOCO rather than asking for info on fixing it.

So while you arent looking for legal advise youre looking for information to help you in your claim agaisnt Ford. Which still falls under the forum guidelines of a big No No.

Now then...that being said....if you are looking for information on that there are plenty of resources out there all you have to do is look up the info. Besides...most folks on here (including myself) arent master mechanics and arent super qualified to answer your questions.

Good luck...but youre still probably treading on thin ice asking questions related to this matter after they already locked it a 1st time.

-Chris

 

I know its a crazy deal. I'm regretting selling my 77 f-150. At least I could work on it. They put so much crap on these trucks all in the name of gas mileage but I'm not sure what they really are gaining. My 77 had a straight 6 with 198,000 mile on it and it got 17 mpg around town or highway. Thirty years of technolgy and we haven't gotten anywere! I have faith that Ford will make it right but its pretty damn frustrating. Hope you get your window and get it in before winter gets here!!!!

 

Thanks for the explanation 73f350sc. I will tread lightly.

 

I got a solid window in their, it isn't open, I just want my damn split window that I was promised when I signed the dotted line!

 

On another note... you can do some research on if your state has a "Lemon Law" desinged to protect buyers from similar things such as this...it may be able to get something put into motion toward getting the problem fixed. Also...try another dealership if its still under warranty...youd be suprised at what just taknig it across town or even to the next town will do for ya.
-Chris

 

Sorry the the thread was closed, didn't seem against the rules when I responded.

If you search back to the beginning of my thread history you may find some useful information.

The whole DSB and arbitration thing is how I originally found this board 2.5 years ago or so.

 

Thanks a lot Toypuller!!! It's good to know how the process works before you go into it. I'll give Ford credit for the way the have the DSA setup. If I don't like what happens with the arbitration then I can still enact the lemon law here in Idaho and everything I've done so far fulfills the requirements for the lemon law. That way I don't have to start all over.