oiling problems
Junior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 82
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From: Louisiana
oiling problems
I have recently replaced the 300 I6 with a 460 in my 82 F150 4X4. I bought a Moroso 8 qt pan and pickup tube with a high volume ford-racing pump. The oil filter on a 460 would not fit due to the cross member on the 4X4 I had to use an oil filter relocation kit, in my case not a good idea it was taking at least a full minute to build oil psi even when hot I had to cut out a piece of the cross member to get the filter on the block where it should be but it's still taking to long to build oil psi, instant when hot but about 30 sec when cold. Once I get oil psi the engine holds good oil psi. Could this because of the extended length of the pickup tube.
ps. I had nothing but problems from the start with the pan and pickup tube not working together in my truck.
ps. I had nothing but problems from the start with the pan and pickup tube not working together in my truck.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 8
From: Missouri
oiling problems
I have seen guages that took more time to warm up than the oil. Try another good guage and see how that looks. High volume pumps take very little time to pressurize the system. That is one advantage I think to them but that is a whole nother post. What is the clearance between the oil pan and the pickup screen?
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 56,995
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From: Virginia
oiling problems
I am thinking, why does this installation have so much custom stuff to make it work, when the factory put 460's in this style frame later on? I don't claim to know anything about it, but have you ever looked at a later truck with a factory 460 in it? Maybe it would give some ideas of what to look for in the junkyard, or what to order at the Ford dealer to make it all work.
Junior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 82
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From: Louisiana
oiling problems
I will try another gauge but I can hear a difference in the way the engine sounds when the oil psi gauge starts to climb. The screen clearance is a bought 1/2-inch I cant remember exactly.
Yes they did put 460's in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks between 80 and 86 (away from that year span I don’t know much a bought them im just starting out in the mud racing world) I could have used the oil pan out of one of them as long as it was a 4X4 but a call to Jegs was a lot easer than pulling a pan at a junk yard plus I gained extra oil capacity.
Yes they did put 460's in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks between 80 and 86 (away from that year span I don’t know much a bought them im just starting out in the mud racing world) I could have used the oil pan out of one of them as long as it was a 4X4 but a call to Jegs was a lot easer than pulling a pan at a junk yard plus I gained extra oil capacity.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 8
From: Missouri
oiling problems
Well if you can hear the change in load then you have a real problem. Pretty good observation. Some more questions. What kind of filter are you using? How did you install the pump (all details)? Using a bigger pan for heavy off roading is definitely a smart thing to do. I dunno anything else. I have never been into a 460 before. The days are getting close though.
Last edited by Ratsmoker; Jan 19, 2003 at 05:46 PM.
Junior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: Louisiana
oiling problems
I’m using a Wix 51515 filter it holds a bought 3/4 quart alone, the pump came with a bigger drive shaft witch I used along with the new gaskets for pick-up tube to pump and pump to block then just bolted in were the old pump was according to torque specs.
I also had problems with the pick-up, it was to tall, it would hit the bottom of the pan before the pan met the block It must have been the wrong tube but it matched the pump perfect I had a machine shop cut out 1 1/16" from the tube to leave 1/2" from the bottom of the pan neither Jegs nor Moroso could explain that one to me, normally I do my on welding but not on this, however I do know the weld hasn't broke because I had to pull the pan last week, my luck the full pump arm broke and fell to the bottom, I now own an electric pump.
I measured the distance from the bottom of the block to the bottom of the tube with a good square and tape did the same ting to find the distance from the top to bottom of the pan, subtracted the difference and added a ½ inch to come up with 1 1/16 inch I know that sounds like a lot I checked it 3 times.
I love the power of the 460 considering I pulled out a 300 I6 but it sure has made me cuss a lot.
Thanks for the reply and any help you can offer.
I also had problems with the pick-up, it was to tall, it would hit the bottom of the pan before the pan met the block It must have been the wrong tube but it matched the pump perfect I had a machine shop cut out 1 1/16" from the tube to leave 1/2" from the bottom of the pan neither Jegs nor Moroso could explain that one to me, normally I do my on welding but not on this, however I do know the weld hasn't broke because I had to pull the pan last week, my luck the full pump arm broke and fell to the bottom, I now own an electric pump.
I measured the distance from the bottom of the block to the bottom of the tube with a good square and tape did the same ting to find the distance from the top to bottom of the pan, subtracted the difference and added a ½ inch to come up with 1 1/16 inch I know that sounds like a lot I checked it 3 times.
I love the power of the 460 considering I pulled out a 300 I6 but it sure has made me cuss a lot.
Thanks for the reply and any help you can offer.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 8
From: Missouri
oiling problems
IF there are any pin holes in the weld it could be sucking air and taking forvever to prime or even loosing prime at idle. Go buy a melling high volume if you can't figure anything else out. The filter you have is the best in the business for under 5 bucks in my opinion.
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 82
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From: Louisiana
oiling problems
Thanks for the advice, like you I figure there has to be a problem with the pick-up. Been waiting for something catastrophic to happen in the engine for an excuse to rebuild it as a 514 stroker, I'll go with a Melling then.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,882
Likes: 0
From: Nevada
oiling problems
It could be the oil filter or oil pump drain-back valve. Either would cause the cold oiling problem. I've used a remote filter system with an oil cooler between the filter and block for 17 years in a 4x4 and never had that problem.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 829
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From: Porterfield
oiling problems
Originally posted by ratsmoker
IF there are any pin holes in the weld it could be sucking air and taking forvever to prime or even loosing prime at idle. Go buy a melling high volume if you can't figure anything else out. The filter you have is the best in the business for under 5 bucks in my opinion.
IF there are any pin holes in the weld it could be sucking air and taking forvever to prime or even loosing prime at idle. Go buy a melling high volume if you can't figure anything else out. The filter you have is the best in the business for under 5 bucks in my opinion.
Junior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: Louisiana
oiling problems
Is a drain back valve the same as an over psi valve?
If the pump was sucking air wouldn’t my oil psi fluctuate especially at idle? The engine holds a steady 60-psi when cold, a little less once hot and the oil thins out.
If the pump was sucking air wouldn’t my oil psi fluctuate especially at idle? The engine holds a steady 60-psi when cold, a little less once hot and the oil thins out.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,882
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From: Nevada
oiling problems
Same valve. If not working properly, once you shut the engine down it will allow all the oil in your oiling system to drain back into the pan. Then, when you start the engine, the pump has to prime itself and pump oil into the galleys before it gets to the pressure sender. That could be the reason it takes you some time to see oil pressure on a cold start and yet you have steady pressure once the engine is running.
New User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3
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oiling problems
If you have a freash rebuild, Check to see if the machine shop installed the oil galley plug in the front of the block. Its behind the timing chain cover. To check if it is installed pull the distributor and run a oil pump primer on the the pump. You will see oil gushing from the front of the block about half way up the block.
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