Shudder on braking
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,899
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From: Upstate NY
Shudder on braking
I've just replaced my front brake pads and rotors at 76000 miles. While they were still pretty good, the right side had frozen in the caliper from the normal rust belt disease - salty roads. There was a fairly heavy shudder that appeared to have come from that brake. After replacing the pads and rotors, there is still a shudder and it is worse. The front suspension is in pretty good shape in that I can't see any slop in tie rod ends or hub bearings and the 4 ball joints were replaced with good greasable Moogs about 10K miles ago. This, to me leaves the caliper as a possible culprit, but I have never had a caliper fail before. Before I run down to my smiling parts folks and fork out some more bucks, would like another opinion or several. I did a search, but didn't come up with any similar occurances of this.
(Groan - what a project to change frozen on rotors - me, my sawzall and a big hammer
)
Dave
(Groan - what a project to change frozen on rotors - me, my sawzall and a big hammer
)Dave
Senior User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 217
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From: Virginia
Before I got to the part where you thought it was the caliper, I was thinking to myself "sticky caliper"...
I'd check the sliders and piston for free travel. High temp anti-sieze on the sliders helps keep them from rusting up (that's what I use...)
Also, bad shocks don't always leak. If you've never replaced them, I'd bet you'd notice a world of difference if you did...
I'd check the sliders and piston for free travel. High temp anti-sieze on the sliders helps keep them from rusting up (that's what I use...)
Also, bad shocks don't always leak. If you've never replaced them, I'd bet you'd notice a world of difference if you did...
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2006
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Even though you replaced the rotors and other parts, you need to make sure that the mating surface that the rotor rests on is cleaned off, if its not the rotor will not sit flat and will still cause brake pulsation. In the trade we use die grinders/whizzy wheels to clean any rust off, you could use a wire wheel in a drill, basically anything that will clean it off without digging too deep.
and yes calipers do fail, most often you just want to replace it. you can get a refurb at autozone for cheap, like 25 bucks or less when you turn yours in. then just bleed the line when its installed.
if that doesnt cure it, run your hand over your front tires, the should be smooth, if they are cupped then your tires are causing the pulsating.
and yes calipers do fail, most often you just want to replace it. you can get a refurb at autozone for cheap, like 25 bucks or less when you turn yours in. then just bleed the line when its installed.
if that doesnt cure it, run your hand over your front tires, the should be smooth, if they are cupped then your tires are causing the pulsating.
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,931
Likes: 180
i had the same thing. thought it was the front right, took off and it was semi stuck. cleaned up an dgot it free... also had to turn the brakd disc it was warped.... lng story short, still had the problem, did it a second time, same thing.... finally took the back apart and right rear also had a problme. would have sworn it was coming from the front.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,899
Likes: 12
From: Upstate NY
Thanks guys.
As far as greasing up the caliper slides, that was done - I even bought a new $8 tube of HT lube to replace my 30 year old can of white drum brake grease.
To clean up the mating surface, I used a wire wheel on my 4" grinder, then used some 60 grit heavy duty longboard paper to make it shiny. Then, for the next time (hopefully long after I trade it in), anti-siezed the entire mating surface.
This has now led me to the caliper - as the condition is only during braking. Since this particular caliper had a frozen pad from rust, seems to be the last alternative at least as far as the hydraulic part. I'm going to see if my supplier has one in stock, and if so will change it out - if out of stock, I'll order one from Rock Auto and install early next week.
One other item that came to mind - can ABS cause that problem at a single brake? The only other time I had ABS problems was when an earlier truck was under warranty and it went back to Ford for repairs. By the time they got it fixed they had 'shotgunned" the system and replaced everything possible but the brake lines so had no idea what eventually cured that problem.
Dave
As far as greasing up the caliper slides, that was done - I even bought a new $8 tube of HT lube to replace my 30 year old can of white drum brake grease.
To clean up the mating surface, I used a wire wheel on my 4" grinder, then used some 60 grit heavy duty longboard paper to make it shiny. Then, for the next time (hopefully long after I trade it in), anti-siezed the entire mating surface.
This has now led me to the caliper - as the condition is only during braking. Since this particular caliper had a frozen pad from rust, seems to be the last alternative at least as far as the hydraulic part. I'm going to see if my supplier has one in stock, and if so will change it out - if out of stock, I'll order one from Rock Auto and install early next week.
One other item that came to mind - can ABS cause that problem at a single brake? The only other time I had ABS problems was when an earlier truck was under warranty and it went back to Ford for repairs. By the time they got it fixed they had 'shotgunned" the system and replaced everything possible but the brake lines so had no idea what eventually cured that problem.
Dave
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,899
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From: Upstate NY
Originally Posted by steve(ill)
i had the same thing. thought it was the front right, took off and it was semi stuck. cleaned up an dgot it free... also had to turn the brakd disc it was warped.... lng story short, still had the problem, did it a second time, same thing.... finally took the back apart and right rear also had a problme. would have sworn it was coming from the front.
Dave
Hotshot
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,931
Likes: 180
look close, i missed the rear right on a quck insepction. the pad had delaminated from the steel backer and curved outward over 1/16 inch. rust was forming and pushing it further. the pad was wearing at an angle and vibrating whan engaged.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Upstate NY
Guys - thanks for the words of advice.
I said the heck with it yesterday and drove it anyhow - not a shudder, shake or bounce. I did nothing to it, nada, none, not a thing and it seems to be fine. Am I missing something or was it a miraculous cure?
Maybe more later if it comes back, but....
I said the heck with it yesterday and drove it anyhow - not a shudder, shake or bounce. I did nothing to it, nada, none, not a thing and it seems to be fine. Am I missing something or was it a miraculous cure?
Maybe more later if it comes back, but....
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Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,899
Likes: 12
From: Upstate NY
Thanks - but whatever was happening - just went away. Strange, but the brakes are fine tho I will need to change the rears soon.
Maybe, if I was a religious person, I would be looking for a miracle - these kind of things just don't happen, but.....
Maybe, if I was a religious person, I would be looking for a miracle - these kind of things just don't happen, but.....
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