The "fun" continues
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Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Pacific Northwest
The "fun" continues
Ford and Navistar are still at each others throats, here is what I just found:
Navistar seeks $2 bln from Ford as spat escalates
Wed May 2, 2007 9:10 PM BST
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CHICAGO (Reuters) - Truck and engine maker Navistar International Corp. (NAVZ.PK: Quote, Profile , Research) said on Wednesday it had filed an amended counter-complaint in its legal fight with Ford Motor Co. (F.N: Quote, Profile , Research) that seeks damages of more than $2 billion from the troubled Detroit automaker.
Navistar, the exclusive supplier of diesel engines to Ford's Super Duty pickups since 1979, said the amended complaint was prompted by indications that Ford was planning to develop diesel engines of its own for introduction prior to 2012.
The counter-claim is the latest twist in contract dispute that begin in January, when Ford sued Navistar over warranty costs and engine prices related to the contract for the F-Series, the most popular vehicles in their class.
That prompted Navistar to briefly cut off diesel engine shipments to Ford -- though a judge later ordered the company to resume those shipments while the case proceeds.
The "fun" continues. This will be interesting,
Myotis
Navistar seeks $2 bln from Ford as spat escalates
Wed May 2, 2007 9:10 PM BST
Email This Article | Print This Article | RSS [-] Text [+]
CHICAGO (Reuters) - Truck and engine maker Navistar International Corp. (NAVZ.PK: Quote, Profile , Research) said on Wednesday it had filed an amended counter-complaint in its legal fight with Ford Motor Co. (F.N: Quote, Profile , Research) that seeks damages of more than $2 billion from the troubled Detroit automaker.
Navistar, the exclusive supplier of diesel engines to Ford's Super Duty pickups since 1979, said the amended complaint was prompted by indications that Ford was planning to develop diesel engines of its own for introduction prior to 2012.
The counter-claim is the latest twist in contract dispute that begin in January, when Ford sued Navistar over warranty costs and engine prices related to the contract for the F-Series, the most popular vehicles in their class.
That prompted Navistar to briefly cut off diesel engine shipments to Ford -- though a judge later ordered the company to resume those shipments while the case proceeds.
The "fun" continues. This will be interesting,
Myotis
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From: Oregon
The best way for a company to hold onto a customer is to treat them fair and give them something that they can not get somewhere else. Navistar has done that in the past and now they are cutting their own throats. If I was on Ford's management team I would also look at making the engines in house. Right now Navistar does not want to help pay for the warranty claims and they have raised their engine price to Ford. With Ford being in the situation that they are in and needing to cut costs I feel they can make a very reliable engine in house for less than outsourcing. At this point Navistar is not bringing much to the table that Ford can't find elsewhere.
Just my thoughts!!!!
Just my thoughts!!!!
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Freshman User
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From: Pacific Northwest
I am not sure it is that easy for Ford to design and build their own diesel engine. In my opinion they are between a rock and hard place. They won't get a Cummings, Chrysler keeps it's hands on that engine tightly. They won't get a Duramax either and as said designing and building a very complex diesel engine may be just wishful thinking.
In my opinion the best way to get to a Win-Win situation with Navistar is keep negotiating until both companies needs are met (see Dr. Steven Covey's "7 Habits of highly effective poeple"). If Ford and Navistar keep sueing each other both companies will lose and so will the customers. I for example will not buy a Ford with the 6.4L diesel engine until I see this dispute solved and until data show that this is a good and reliable engine.
Those are my thoughts,
Myotis
In my opinion the best way to get to a Win-Win situation with Navistar is keep negotiating until both companies needs are met (see Dr. Steven Covey's "7 Habits of highly effective poeple"). If Ford and Navistar keep sueing each other both companies will lose and so will the customers. I for example will not buy a Ford with the 6.4L diesel engine until I see this dispute solved and until data show that this is a good and reliable engine.
Those are my thoughts,
Myotis
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Originally Posted by Enomra
With Ford being in the situation that they are in and needing to cut costs I feel they can make a very reliable engine in house for less than outsourcing. At this point Navistar is not bringing much to the table that Ford can't find elsewhere.
Ford may be able to find engines elsewhere but it takes tremendous amounts of resources to develop and certify an engine for EPA emissions in this day and age. Doubtful Ford themselves can do it for less than outsourcing.
IMO its all "sabre rattling" on both Ford and Internationals part.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Oregon
Very true but when you look at the margins that Navistar is making on the engine and Ford knowing that they can sell X amount each year there is a lot of $ for R&D...
Lets hope cooler heads prevail and they both move on!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lets hope cooler heads prevail and they both move on!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Butt-Head
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,453
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From: Reed Point, MT
Originally Posted by Enomra
Very true but when you look at the margins that Navistar is making on the engine and Ford knowing that they can sell X amount each year there is a lot of $ for R&D...
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Navistar didn't create the so called problems with the 6.0, In my opinion. I haven't seen any evidence the 6.0 was any worst then the 7.3 for what it was designed to do, (it’s lighter duty then the 7.3 and it was put in a vehicle that needed more). They built what Ford specked. Ford didn't realize people would try to put 200 HP Programmers and try to get warranty work out of them. Navistar has to be allowed to make a profit just like Ford. If Navistar accepts Fords position they will no longer be able to build any Diesel Motors or anything else for that matter. It’s called being out of business. Both companies will have to give a little. I will say this Ford had better watch out Navistar could shutter the doors “Friday” and Ford would be shut out of the Diesel market for 5 years at least!! Bankruptcy court could really play havoc on Fords ability to Sell Diesels they don’t have!!
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Elder User
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Oregon
Your statements about the problems from consumers adding 200 hp and trying to get warranty work is way off base. If the only problems Ford had with theses engines were related to aftermarket equipment then we wouldn't even be talking about issues with the 6.0. You cannot blame stuck unison rings(sticky turbo's), faulty EGR's, leaking and sticking Injectors, wire Chaffing and the constant reprogramming on the aftermarket world.
Sorry I'm not buying it.
Sorry I'm not buying it.
Junior User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 76
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From: VENTURA, CA
I'll stick to my 7.3L, there isn't a new truck that I would buy over it. I have three buddies with the 6.0L and they have had more problems than I ever heard of with the 7.3L. The latest one is really bad hunting like 1200 rpm.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Oregon
The 6.0 is a great engine I just don't think that the problems some have had are all related to aftermarket upgrades ie. programmers. I will still take my 6.0 over a 7.3 mainly because of the newer trannys...
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,658
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From: Ellensburg, Washington
6.Slows are trouble makers, and they have been that way from the get-go. Like stated above, problems range anywhere from a sticky turbo to bad injectors to garbage harnesses. The list goes on. I will say that most every engine has its trouble and in my opinion it seems the 6.slow has more then its fair share. It'll be a sad day if Ford and Navistar decide to go opposite ways. The used powerstroke market prices will go through the roof.
Cowboy Steve
Cowboy Steve
Postmaster
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From: Ellensburg, Washington
Originally Posted by MobeyDick
I never had a Engine Related problem with the 6.0s.
Cowboy Steve
