I won't go into the long, sad story about my experience purchasing my first PSD, a '97 F350 crew cab diesel with 106,000 miles. I paid too much and didn't realize what I was getting into, despite having the truck inspected by the dealer before I laid out the cash. This is the first time in my life I feel like I got burned, and I've purchased a lot of used vehicles, just never a diesel 4x4.

Anyway, I'm over my anger and am now addressing several expensive problems.

The first was getting all the ball joints and tie-rod ends replaced, as well as the track bar bushings. I like the mechanic that did it for me...he let me buy my own parts which saved me a ton of money. With all the parts, labor, and a front end alignment, I spent about $1200. The parts I got are quality, all Moog Enhanced greasable.

Here's the problem, though. I get the thing home and discover a nice puddle of differential fluid in my driveway (probably 2 ounces or so) on the passenger side. The leaking did seem to stop overnight (I put a can under the leak and almost nothing else came out by morning)

Took the truck back and asked the guy what the deal was. He said they did notice some oil in the axle tube when they pulled the axle. Two weeks before the balljoint guy worked on it, I had a different mechanic replace the dust boot seal on the same side (I didn't use him again because I had asked him to check balljoints while he had it apart. He told me they were fine, but believe me, they weren't) The first mechanic also drained and filled the diff. According to the second mechanic, the first guy overfilled the diff...it was too full. You probably see where this is going. The leak pretty much did stop, except for a couple drips during the day with the truck jacked up on the problem side, so maybe I'm okay. Oh, and the diff is still full, not empty.

But, now I'm wondering. I didn't note any charges for axle seals, etc on the balljoint job. Would a competent mechanic have replaced any of the axle seals, etc. just as standard Ford procedure, or is it really a "as needed" thing. I did tell him before the job that if he saw anything in there that looked questionable, call me and chances are I would authorize him to fix it. If there were some things that should have been replaced that are part of the "by the book procedure" then I need to confront him on it. I'm just not familiar enough with the job to know for sure.

I'm worried that some cheap, easy seals might have been missed.

Worst case scenario, if there is a problem with the inner axle seals in the pumpkin, is it really a $625 job for a competent mechanic to fix? It's a Dana 60. I really hope this guy didn't create this problem by being sloppy putting the axle through the seal in a hurry, but it's impossible to know.

This type of stuff really makes me want to do this work myself. With 2 kids, a full work schedule and no garage or free weekends, I just can't find the time.
Sorry to ramble. If anyone wants to hear more of my problems with this money pit, I'd be happy to vent some more! The truck does look nice sitting in the driveway, at least.

Thanks!

-George

 

sorry to hear about the problems. hope you dont have a bad taste for your truck now, it's a good truck. i have a 250 with a different front axle setup so i can't input on procedure and help you place blame for the problem. the estimate for those seals doesn't sound crazy to me, but i'll let the rest of the guys take that one

 

That price sounds about right to fix the seals as the whole front end has to come apart. Mine started leaking after I did my balljoints, so away we went again!

 

I feel for ya but Man, don't panic, yet. The axle tube will get some oil in it when the axles are removed. Especially if the axle wasn't hanging level on the hoist (most don't). The 1st guy overfilling the diff won't cause a leak, it just makes bad seals look worse. He should have proposed that repair to you if the axle tubes had oil in them. Most of the labor to replace the seal is getting the axles out. I'll bet he didn't clean-out the tubes when the axles were re-installed. That alone can cause premature seall failure. It just pushes the oil and dirt right onto the seal and housing. Did the 1st guy install new u'joints on the axles? or just the dust seals?

That's a lot of $$ for a front end job especially since you bought the parts. The oil drip isn't something that would be addressed during the front end rebuild. The axles are not removed for this repair.

BTW: None of this is diesel related, the gassers use the same stuff.

 

yeah, that sucks man but like said, keep an eye on the diff level for a while and to see how much it leaks cause from expearence those axle tubes will hold some oil if the axle was pulled. Just hang tight for now and keep an eye on it. Should be good after a few days of driving. After it stops you may want to engage your manual hubs BUT only drive in 2wd on dry pavement and get those axles turning for a few short trips, if it begins to barf again those seals are done.

 

do the dana 60 seals install from inside the diff housing or can they be done with out pulling the diff carrier. I can't remember.

 

Tim, They are inside the housing. A real PITA without the correct tools. I made seal installer that didn't work the first time, ruined a seal (big$$) for a seal anyway. The revised installer is still not as good as correct tools.

Are the TTB axles different? Never did one of those.

 

no I think TTB are the same. I have never done either because they usually done leak enough for the customer to want to repalce them. though since the ball joints and axles were out if they really were leaking before that that would be the time to do them.

In this case I am guessing the second tech said it was over full cause when he pulled the axle lube cam pouring out. And the leaking fluid is becuase he did clean out the axle tube after the axle was put back in.

 

My curiosity got the better of me and looked in the repair manual (duh). The TTB seals are on the outside. It shows different seal drivers but I think any driver will work. The TTB's are much easier to replace than the D60 IMO. The gears don't need to come out.

Sorry, .

 

well the drivers side can probably be done that way but the passenger side has that stub shaft that comes out so you would have to remove the third member to pull the stub then you could do the seal.

 

mine have been leaky for about 4 years now on both my truck and my wifes 4x4 gets used ALOT when i change the oil every year and fill it it will leak a few ounces ove the time of a week or two then its done. this last year i lost 6 ounces of oil out of the diff over a year on my truck and 4 out of hers. i wouldnt worry about it too much. and yes its a pain to do and the carrier does have to come out to get them in then i just used a very big socket to get the new ones in. its gonna be about an 8 hour job since ya gotta get the axles out of the housing. but if it was me i would let them leak for a bit, clean all the oil off and leave it, you might get a little more leakage if you drive a ton with it in 4x4, but thoose leakage numbers i gave you from our trucks are with probably about 5000miles a year in 4x4

 

Thanks as always guys for the support. Maybe I'll get lucky on the inner seal possible leak. The second mechanic did say there was a lot of lube in the axles when they took out the shafts and he cleaned it out as much as he could.

If it ends up being a really slow leak, like a couple of drips a day, is there any problem just letting it go for a while and checking the diff level anytime I want to do some 4 wheeling (which isn't all that often)?

I know Cuda_jim mentioned that $1200 seemed like a lot for ball joints, tie rods and ends and alignment, but I have to tell you, the first place a took my truck for an estimate was a highly recommended diesel shop here in Western WA. For the exact same front end job with the same parts, they were trying to charge me $2800. They also quoted me $2700 for replacing a CPS, EBPV, one oil galley plug in the front, and fixing the leak in the turbo pedestal. When I started looking at what they were charging for parts I was shocked. For the front end parts they were almost TRIPLE what I paid at rockauto.com. They were going to charge $1100 plus $550 labor for a new turbo pedestal when all it probably needs is some o-rings. They also wanted 5.5 hrs to change the fuel pump saying they had to remove the turbo to do it (it's a non CA truck). The list goes on and on (such as $245 for a CPS and $70 labor to install it). There were a lot of RV's at their shop and I kind of wonder if they're taking advantage of the retired crowd. I guess it's capitalism, but it seemed a little extreme to me. Needless to say, I won't go there again.

Wish I could find a good diesel/truck guy that would work for cash on the side and teach me some things at the same time.

Thanks again everyone for your replies, I really appreciate it!

-George

 

Good, cheap and diesel guys are rareley in the same sentence, it's the nature of the beast. With this very helpfull forum however, you can become your own diesel guy for many things.

 

holy cow those prices are over and above a dealerships bogus prices! WOW! don't go anywhere near those guys!

 

Darn Good advice. I wish I had waited instead of being so **** about the fixing the leak. What a PITA without the right tools. Or maybe it was just the inept installer (me) instead of the special tools.