I currently have an 94 F350 ext cab 4X4 Dually that I drive everyday, but I have 5 daughters so interior space is limited. So I've been looking at replacing it with something bigger. I was thinking a Suburban or Excursion at first but they cost too much and the econoline has more space. I found a 98 E350 15 passenger at a good price so I'm trying to come up with a reasonable way to convert it to 4 wheel drive without breaking the bank. An 05-06 F350 HP D60 would be nice but lets face it, that would easily cost what the van does. So my thoughts were to take an 80-96 F250 TTB axle which I probably could find for virtually no cost as they are NOT a desirable axle. I do not want the ride of leaf springs so my thoughts were to see if I could use a set of 80-96 F150 radius arms and modify them to use on the D50 or build a set from scratch using the van radius arms. I'm thinking that the D50 TTB would bolt right in and give me the right track width but I havent gotten out my tape measure to make sure and I believe it would give me the right bolt pattern. My thoughts were to use the vans coil springs thus keeping the ride very close to stock. So in reality the front axle IF it could be done this way would be really reasonable in tearms of money and ride. It would actually be no different than the vans stock suspention except for more unsprung weight.
Now I know the gas tank is in the way and would need changed. Does anyone know who makes the smaller gas tank and how much it costs?
Also there is the transfer case. My thinking was that I could find an intermediate housing and manual shift transfer case from a 98 F-series with the 5.4L engine and marry them to the vans tranny. Anyone see any problems with this? I'm assuming I'll need the trucks crossmember also as the vans probably wont allow for the front drive shaft. The only other thing that appears to be a problem is the exaust but that is probably an easy fix. Ok now I'm asking you guys to tell me if there is anything I'm overlooking, or that I need to consider. Just so you understand I own one Ford truck and 2 Broncos and they are nothing that you could go and buy as I have built them myself, so a Project like this is what I enjoy doing so please dont tell me to go buy something and just drive it as that is against everything I believe in. RB

 

Ive thought about the same thing. I have a 96 Bronco with a dead motor, and a 93 E150 that runs great.

 

> come up with a reasonable way to convert it to 4 wheel drive without breaking the bank

I would convert that 15 pass. van to DRW before I even thought about lifting it to convert it to a 4x4.

> I'm assuming I'll need the trucks crossmember also as the vans probably wont allow for the front drive shaft.

You assume wrong. There is no way you are going to remove the van's cross member without removing the engine. Besides that it is way bigger then the truck's for a reason, because it needs it.

I was looking at a 1995 yesterday. I think the only reasonable way for a backyard mechanic conversion to a 4x4 is to do a SAS with leaf springs.

If this was my van and I already bought it (instead of the 12 pass.) I would convert it to DRW. Then I would get a working transfer case and get that in there and working. THEN I would start laying out exactly where and how much lift I needed for the front end, and then the rear end.

imo, a TTB conversion is the wrong way to go. Even stock the 80-90s have tire wear problems.

 

> I'm assuming I'll need the trucks crossmember also as the vans probably wont allow for the front drive shaft.

You assume wrong. There is no way you are going to remove the van's cross member without removing the engine. Besides that it is way bigger then the truck's for a reason, because it needs it.

I'm sorry you misunderstood me. I was refering to the transmition and transfercase crossmember not the engine cradle. RB






If this was my van and I already bought it (instead of the 12 pass.) I would convert it to DRW. Then I would get a working transfer case and get that in there and working. THEN I would start laying out exactly where and how much lift I needed for the front end, and then the rear end.

I havent bought it yet, and I dont want a 12 passenger van. If stability is the reason for the DRW I'm not at all conserned with that. I havent rolled my 5" lifted BroncoII with 35" tires yet (and I've tried)so I think I can handle a 15 passenger van.

imo, a TTB conversion is the wrong way to go. Even stock the 80-90s have tire wear problems.[/QUOTE]
I do agree a TTB is more maintence to keep alligned because if the spring sags it throws it out of allignment. Thats why I want to go coils because you can easily shim the coil spring if the upper ball joint cannot bring it into allignment.RB

 

OK, look into the truck radius arms, from a 70's F-150 4x4, either have the C- mounts welded onto a 60, or simply use a 1/2 ton HP D-44 from the F-150 and swap the hubs and rotors with the ones from the F-250 HD D-44, been done by guys building trail rigs numerous times. The radius arm setup is the easiest because you can retain the use of coil springs in the vans coil buckets. I discussed the TTB swap with some a while back, the van has a wider front setup, longer I-beams than the trucks, so the TTB won't be a direct swap.
You need to pull out the mid tank and ither shorten it, or toss it out and put in a rear tank, it's too long, Quigly conversion just cuts and welds them back shorter, and installs a rear tank due to the fact it doesn't hold as much fuel.
I'd want to take a look at a Quigly converted Econoline van, check to see what they do to the factory crossmember under the engine to offer clearance.
As for transmission and transfer case mount, that's easy, can be fabricated after they are mounted, to get it's location, and driveline angle correct. Guys who build trail rigs know about this, I've seen vehicles on the trail that resemble nothing that the automanufactures have made, and have a combination of different brands added together. It all depends on your mechanical and welding skills, the rest is just fabrication, and steel.

 

I found this on another site.

>If the Vans, Bronco & F-Series are different widths, what front axles do you think will fit?
I used a 78 F250 solid front axle with leaf springs but I like the idea of IFS and coils for highway comfort. I had considered the idea. I would lean toward using no less than an F250 IFS for width. If you cut the centre IFS crossmember out it could be welded or bolted into where the present van crossmember is. The rear radius arms would connect close to the original van points. After 1990 F250s used leaf springs. Rugged, but coils ride better. The E350/F250 upper coil pockets measure pretty close but I am not sure how the coils would fit to the axle.

I believe these are your easiest choices in order of ease:
Any F350 or HD F250 Dana 60 solid front axle with leafs simple, quick, rough but extremely tough.
1979- F250 Dana 44 solid front axle with leafs simple, quick, rough and still tough
1979- F250 or F350 solid front axle with coils some fabrication, tough and smoother
1980+ F250 IFS front axle with coils, smooth ride, moderate fabrication
1990+ F250 IFS front axle with leafs, OK ride, but same amount of fabrication as above

F150 front axles all would have be widened and have marginal weight capacity for this conversion.

This is off the top of my head, but compared to my E350 van a:
1973-79 F150 solid front axle (Dana 44) is 4" too narrow
1973-79 F250 solid front axle (Dana 44) is 1-2" too narrow
1973-79 F350 solid front axle (Dana 60) is just right
1980-95 F150 IFS axle is 2" too narrow
1980-95 F250 IFS axle is just right
1980-95 F350 solid front axle (Dana 60) is just right
I didn't check any Broncos. I suspect same as F150.



So looking at this a D60 or D50 TTB are the right width. I could as you said put C wedges on a F250 D44 but acording to this the axle is slightly narrower. I could run offset rims but I would rather not. I'm cool with the C wedge idea as I have been down this road when I put a highpinnion D44 under my 75 Bronco and I do like the ride I'm just trying to avoid the costs of a D60. RB

 

You can C-wedge the D-60 also, there have been truck owners who have done this to upgrade axles, to be able to handle larger tires without constant breakage. Look in the junkyards, and for older 4x4 trucks setting in peoples yards rusting away, there are guys who have gotten them for little or nothing, but you have to look. One guy got one given to him, then there are others who have bout older Ford F-250 trucks, no bed, blown or no engine for up to $300.
The TTB is a pain to get right due to camber, they'll destroy tires if not perfect on a truck, being that a van is heavier, they'd do it twice as fast. I've toyed with the ides for a closer to stock look, since sliding in a solid axle will raise one up, no way to avoid it.

 

Dana 60's are hard to come by in this neck of the woods. I was looking for one for my buddy Steve for almost 2 years before we found one at a good price. Anyone of my buddies that finds one usually puts it in his off road rig. I had an F250 D44 a couple years ago, I never thought I would need it, I tried to sell it with no luck, took it to the scrap yard. That would have been a good axle for the nothing I had in it. I actually have a D60 but its in my daily driver. My thinking with the D50TTB would be that I could keep the center of gravity lower (with it )over a straight axle. I'm not 100% sure on this. RB

 

I was heavy into 4x4 trucks once, wheeled them hard, but being in a wheelchair now, I'm not interested in off roading, so no point in a lifted 4x4, I just want a 4x4 van for better traction. I have a 78 F-150 4x4 thats built for going in the woods, had it not been rebuilt and all, I'd consider dismantling it for making a 4x4 van, but it'd set up high. You either have to set it high on a solid axle, or rebuild the crossmember under the engine to remove all of the hanging material for the axle to clear, and it still won't bring it nowhere near stock height. The TTB would raise it possibly 3 inches over stock, maybe not that much, but subtle enough not to notice, easy to find too, due to people removing them for a SAS, they'll give it to ya. I say get one if you have room, set it up on a wood stand as it would bolt under your van, measure everything, the mounting points to insure a direct bolt in, and radius arm length to see it it will go in your stock location. Radius arms aren't important if they won't go in your location, you can move the drop mounts if need be, guys usually lengthen theirs in trail rigs to move them back, to increase flex. They don't tuck in like the vans I-beams, angle down, so the driveshaft should be no issue other than being able to find the correct side drop transfer case to mate to your tansmission, believe the late models are opposite. If you can't locate a transfer case to match, for the newer van transmission, you can go with a divorced setup, you'll have to custom build yourself a shifter though. If you went with a divorced transfer case, you can put in an old heavy duty NP 205, but remember it will hang down a bit, so you risk snagging it if you don't raise up the van and take it offroad in a hilly area.
I'd much rather do an 80's van, or 90's if it has the C-6 transmission, so much easier to get done using truck parts, no electronic driveline controlled by a computer.

 

I myself have built a custom TTB setup for my 89 BroncoII check it out here

 

If you want to go C wedges I think you probably could order a brand new Currie 9+ axle with a custom width for the van and the axle would be okay for on the road stuff. Probably cost as much as a used Dana60. My concern would be getting brakes big enough for a 9+ axle to use with a 15 pass. van.

Once I went from 9.50x16.50 to Swampers 33x12.50x16.50 with steel rims, even with the older big dual caliper brakes I felt a big braking difference and could no longer lock the brakes up in an emergency stop.

If you decide to go the C wedge route then get the radius arm brackets from an older Ford that are the heavy cast iron. The newer ones from stamped steel rust out too quickly and are too whimpy for my tastes.

 

The newer stamped steel radius arms are stamped steel and built for the TTB, not C-wedge, different animal all together there, there aren't stamped ones for the old solid axles. Not sure about anyone else, but I'm a wrench head that always ran the 70's 4x4's, I know them well. His 98 E-350 will have a dual piston caliper rear brake system, the front will be dual piston caliper anti-lock sensor brakes, not sure how to get away with tricking it to keep the light off, wonder what Quigly puts under the front. If you go with the TTB 50, you'll have the anti-lock brake warning light on, that will be a down side, only way to correct it is go solid axle with a newer one equipped with sensors, just thought of it, sorry. All of this is why I want an older Econoline, I'll run a TTB 50 to keep it lower, and no worries about locating parts or fabrication, many 80's trucks around to salvage.

 

Well I stoped by my local tranny shop today and asked if I could bolt an intermediate housing and transfer case to the vans tranny. He said yes BUT the output shaft would have to be changed too which requires a complete dismantle. I was hoping to avoid having to pull the entire tranny out. Which makes me reconsider a divorced setup, hence reconsidering using a rear mounted gas tank. My preference would be the married setup as it would be lighter and probably save on the fuel economy over the long haul.
I'm also unsure if the output shaft could be purchased new and what that cost would be compared to buying a used tranny and stealing the shaft out of it. I think best case scenario would be to find a truck with a bad tranny and buy it with the TC attached. I took the wife to look at the van and she does agree it would be a good purchase for us but I havent driven the van yet. Its been snowing here for 3 days so I figure its worth less every day. RB

 

One more thing, does anyone know what this 4 speed automatic is called? Would it be the same tranny thats in a 98 F150? F250? F350? equiped with the 5.4L V8? I would think the F150 would have a lighter duty tranny than an F350 but I dont know much about autos as I havent had one in years. RB

 

If I buy this van the VERY first thing I will do is dismantle the ABS. I absolutly hate ABS! I'll tear the dash apart and remove that bulb.
I too love 70's Fords, as I have a 75 Bronco, But they dont last long in MI. Alot of people critisize Fords 80-96 TTB suspention because of the tire/allignment issues but a TTB has the strength of a solid axle with the ride of IFS, and can be lifted very cheap. Given the choice I would take TTB over IFS anyday. IFS is weaker and alot more expensive to lift and I hate the fact Ford jumped on that band wagon. If I could buy any new truck that I wanted I would buy a 79 Ford and put Fuel injection on it. RB