Ignition/Timing issue
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Ignition/Timing issue
Hi folks, I've been a long time gone.
Trouble on my '94 3.0. I've had a lack of power and a prominent miss upon acceleration, and a miss at speed, so I've retimed the engine (properly, 10 BTC with spout connector off). After the retime, now it pings miserably, too much advance. My first guess is that I have a bad ECU, but I don't know if this van has a seperate unit that controls advance, or is it all done in the ECU?
Any thoughts appreciated, I'm dreading going through every possible position sensor to solve this.
Trouble on my '94 3.0. I've had a lack of power and a prominent miss upon acceleration, and a miss at speed, so I've retimed the engine (properly, 10 BTC with spout connector off). After the retime, now it pings miserably, too much advance. My first guess is that I have a bad ECU, but I don't know if this van has a seperate unit that controls advance, or is it all done in the ECU?
Any thoughts appreciated, I'm dreading going through every possible position sensor to solve this.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,720
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From: Washington state
hi 250k as and welcome back
any chance it's carbon buildup? or a vacuum leak? or a defective plug?
all common causes of pinging preignition
how's the vacuum modulator and it's vacuum line on auto tranny?
start by pulling KOEO and KOER codes
we seldom see a Ford ECU failure, Built Intel Tough, remember?
any chance it's carbon buildup? or a vacuum leak? or a defective plug?
all common causes of pinging preignition
how's the vacuum modulator and it's vacuum line on auto tranny?
start by pulling KOEO and KOER codes
we seldom see a Ford ECU failure, Built Intel Tough, remember?
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Ha ha, good info. Oddly, I couldn't get my code reader to spit out a code. Engine off, it would start into the test, switching relays etc., but then it would be dead. No good on the run test either. I gave it a new vac mod last year, though I haven't double checked its hose now. Vac leak sounds like a good possibility. This all came on over a few weeks, van has 89K, so I doubt carbon. I'm also thinking a weak coil. Plugs are platinums, since 50K. More work tomorrow, thanks!
JP
JP
Post Fiend
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From: Kiev, Ukraine
It seems to me, that I have the same problem.... Puting SPOUT shoting bar out changes nothing.... So I had to retime ignition on run, to have the maximal power on 1800-2200 RPM.... Ignition is too early on low RPMs and to late on hight and iting does not depend on engine load....
I tried to chek SPOUT signal with osciloscope, and I can see it is good, and I think it is TFI failure.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...-problems.html
I tried to chek SPOUT signal with osciloscope, and I can see it is good, and I think it is TFI failure.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...-problems.html
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My spout plug is functional. Checked tranny lines, no problem found. Removed and cleaned dist cap/rotor, the were fairly dirty. Test drive showed some improvement, but the miss was still there. Checked my TPS in run postition, showed 12V. The book says I should see 4-6V there. Whatever that should tell me, I don't understand! I'm changing the coil next, cheap enough.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Kiev, Ukraine
250K! Try to do a little experiment! Remove a hatch inside the cabine, loosen bolt with 10mm wrench and try to ajust timing on run till you get the max. power and avoid pinging.
But be carefull of hight voltage and ask someone to assist you... It is difficult to drive and to look on the road.... So belive me, this is the perfect way...
But be carefull of hight voltage and ask someone to assist you... It is difficult to drive and to look on the road.... So belive me, this is the perfect way...
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Kiev, Ukraine
TPS 12V???? Are you sure.... EEC-IV uses 5 volt as VREF... May be wires are shot to 12 V ore ECU is not OK.... ???
Last edited by Pablo-UA; Oct 17, 2006 at 11:54 AM.
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A little caution here, this may be escalating into a needlessly complex search for a simple problem.
89,000 miles, have the plug wires been replaced? If not, I would start there for sure. Also as mentioned, plugs can act up, particularly if not the correct temperature range.
Most of these problems turn out to have very basic causes but we tend to jump on the more exotic cures. Lord knows I've been guilty of this too many times in the past.
89,000 miles, have the plug wires been replaced? If not, I would start there for sure. Also as mentioned, plugs can act up, particularly if not the correct temperature range.
Most of these problems turn out to have very basic causes but we tend to jump on the more exotic cures. Lord knows I've been guilty of this too many times in the past.
Last edited by aerocolorado; Oct 17, 2006 at 12:25 PM.
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Thanks for the cool head, AeroCO! I know it's simple, just have to find it. Any normal car and I'd have already swapped wires out. Pablo, that's worked for me before. Thanks for the continued interest.
JP
JP
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Yes, I checked the tee, nothing strange.
I can tell you it's not the coil, I just put the new one on. Timed it normal, no improvement. Next I removed the snout plug and timed it to 35 degrees @ appx. 2500. It idled OK but knocked and pinged and no power, I don't know how but it felt like it continued to advance the spark. Still had the miss too. Next is plugs and wires I suppose, and back to normal timing.
I can tell you it's not the coil, I just put the new one on. Timed it normal, no improvement. Next I removed the snout plug and timed it to 35 degrees @ appx. 2500. It idled OK but knocked and pinged and no power, I don't know how but it felt like it continued to advance the spark. Still had the miss too. Next is plugs and wires I suppose, and back to normal timing.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,720
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From: Washington state
can't time it that way
SPOUT disconnects dynamic spark advance by ECU...
set for 10d BTDC at idle with SPOUT removed
replace SPOUT
check timing at 3k rpm, should be around 30d BTDC
tells u that dynamic ECU advance is working based upon all sensor inputs working, MAF, IAT, ECT, crank and TPS
look for air/vacuum leak or carbon in comb. chambers
SPOUT disconnects dynamic spark advance by ECU...
set for 10d BTDC at idle with SPOUT removed
replace SPOUT
check timing at 3k rpm, should be around 30d BTDC
tells u that dynamic ECU advance is working based upon all sensor inputs working, MAF, IAT, ECT, crank and TPS
look for air/vacuum leak or carbon in comb. chambers