Ford negligence at factory. Rear driver side wheel nut backed off. Only symptom was slight steering wander. I looked under chassis to see about where I could put a Panhard rod and found leaking axle seal.

Good advice on this forum was not to drive it. So I took it in for a new seal this morning and the entire rear end is gone. Dealer said I was lucky the spindle didn't crystallize and loose the rear wheels.

If anyone know a number at Ford where I could lodge this complaint, please let me know. I'm out thousands of dollars for lost salary, cancelled vacation, etc. and it damn near cost me and my wife our lives.

 

Ford Motor Company
Customer Relationship Center
P.O.Box 6248
Dearborn, Michigan 48126
1-800-392-3673(FORD)
TDD for the hearing impaired:1-800-232-5952
Monday - Friday 8:00 AM – 5:00 PM local time

 

Thanks, but that number won't help me. A dude named Freddie will not help me because a motorhome was build on the chassis and he refers me to some outfit in Arizona that only says.."send them a letter".


Unbelievable...I've been trying to talk to someone at Ford who cares all day and so far have stuck out.

Maybe they don't want to know their wheels are falling off their trucks.

 

markbrumbaugh,

Sorry to hear about your misfortune, but vehicles are built by humans and mistakes are made. I know you are frustrated but it sounds like your local dealer is fixing the problem.

When and if the rear axle would have broken and the wheel come off the vehicle that is speculation. The rear axle is full floating so it is contained and supported on both ends, unlike a semi-floating axle.

As far as the wheel coming off, it usually takes more than one loose lug nut for the wheel to come off.

Not trying to rain on your parade or make light of your predicament, just trying to shine a little perspective on it.
Also i don't follow how you lost thousands in salary when most vacations are paid time off.

Yes you had the inconvienence of shortening or canceling your vacation, but other than that, that is about it. As far as losing your lives, where, just because a rear wheel comes off doesn't (which it didn't) doesn't mean you are going to lose your life, many times when a rear wheel is lost that side drops down and drags on the ground as the vehicle slows down and you just come to a stop.

As i said not trying to rain on your parade and yes i would be upset that my vacation was cut short or postponed, but just want to put this in perspective. Running around shouting the sky is falling is not going to solve any problems.

The main thing is, no one was hurt and the dealer is repairing the problem. You suffered some inconvience, which is frustrating, but stuff happens. I suggest when you talk with FMC you do so in a calm and cool manner, if you get angry at them they will just tune you out and you will get no where. Also written complaints generally carry a little more weight than a phone call.

Step back take a deep breath and then move forward

 

Mark,

Your complaint is with the up-fitter that built your motorhome, NOT FMC. The up-fiitter gets a bare chassis cab from FMC and then does extensive modifications to it to make the motor home. And yes the up-fitter many times removes and re-installs the wheels. Also it is the up-fiitters responsibility to make sure the vehicle is safe before delivery not FMC. The vehicle is not certified for sale until it is completed by the up-fitter and then the up-fitter certifies the vehicle to be road worthy not FMC.

Once the chassis cab has left FMC control how are they responsible for wether or not the lug nuts are loose?

You are going to have to deal with the up-fitter that built your motorhome as they are the ones who certified it as a complete road worthy vehicle not FMC.

You didn't buy a Ford motor home as FMC does not make motor homes, you bought a motorhome with a Ford chassis and engine.

I know you are frustrated, but you are barking up the wrong tree. You need to be talking to the motorhome manufacture.

 

I don't think he is talking about lug nuts. I think he is talking about the big axle nut(Spindle nut), the one you will see after unbolting and pulling the axle shaft out. How is this not Fords Fault?

 

Well he said "wheel nut" and the only "wheel nut" is a lug nut. If it is the axle Spindle nut then we need some more information from him.

1) Year and mileage of vehicle?

2) Was the spindle nut loose or just the outer axle seal leaking?

3) Was the spindle nut defective?

4) Was the seal just defective or a burr on the axle shaft causing the seal to leak?

5) Was the vehicle overloaded and caused the axle to start to fail?

6) How does and axle shaft "crystallize" from an axle seal leak?

7) If the axle shaft breaks how does it come out of the housing since it is a full-floating axle?

Wanabe2,

He has four threads going on this over the last two days since he joined on Saturday, i understand his frustration, but he has provided very little information about this, and two of his threads are him ranting and raving about how negligent FMC is, when the fact is he purchased a motorhome from an up-fitter that certifies the vehicle for road worthiness. Also he states that the dealer is fixing the problem.

Here are the links to his other threads for quick reference
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/53...pert-fast.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/53...l-leaking.html

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/53...p-houston.html

My next question is what dealer is doing the repairs, the motorhome dealer, the motorhome manufacture, or Ford dealer?

He needs to provide a more complete picture of what is actually going on, and slow down, take a deep breath and stop ranting and raving about how bad FMC is. If he really want our help and input then he has to give us more information on the vehicle and the actual facts of what is going on. A "small drip on the rear axle" (these are his words in a previous thread) is not going to cause and instant axle failure and kill he and his wife.

Until he posts more info it will be hard to give him more accurate help.

 

I got the right tree and IT IS FORD.

It is not a lug not...it is the wheel nut that holds the bearings, spindle, and wheel together. There is no upgrade or alteration to the chassis in this area by the upgrader.

I am self-employed and do not get a paid vacation. My wife is a cancer survivor right now and we don't know when we can take vacations due to doctor appointments. It took us three months to schedule this one week.

Look...I have loved Ford products all my 55 years. I know this forum is for Ford truck enthusiasts. Yes I am pissed. But it was the service department that told me it most likely came that way from the factory and "lucky that the wheel didn't fall off" is a direct quote from their rear end guy who took it apart.

So I hope that all of you will take heed of this advice and not become a statistic. It is clearly up to each of you to check your new Ford's wheel bearings. Ford has refused to give me anyone's telephone number with whom I can have a dialogue about this issue and gain some assurance that they take safety seriously.

Oh...I had driven it 250 miles, although the manufacturer put 1700 on it driving it to the dealer. So we are under 2000 miles the spindle was crystalizing.

 

wanabe2,

Also he said he was under the vehicle looking for a place to install a panhard bar to stop the vehicle from wandering. Generally panhard bars are only installed on coil spring suspensions, yes they are installed on some leaf spring applications but not often.

The main function of a panhard bar is to change the roll center of a vehicle when cornering. The panhard bar has a minimal effect on a vehicle traveling down the road in a straight line. Also depending where and how a panhard bar is mounted it will effect the vehicle in one turn direction more than the other. Design and installation of a panhard bar is not something for a novice to undertake as it takes a good deal of engineering and understanding of its effects on the vehicle to get it right.

A panhard bar is not going to solve his wandering problem that he complained about in his post above. His wandering problems could be caused by, bad front end components, steering gear out of spec, under-inflated tires, improper or damaged shock absorbers, overloaded or improperly loaded vehicle, or the normal sway of a large high profile vehicle going down the road.

Also a minor leak in an axle seal or a spindle nut that is slightly loose is generally not going to cause a vehicle to wander all over the road. If the spindle nut was loose enough to cause the vehicle to wander all over the road, he would have had more than a minor leak and there would have been other noises and problems associated with it.

The leaking rear axle is probably unrelated to the vehicle wandering issue.

As i said earlier we need more accurate information from him in order to help him with his problems.

Hope this helps

 

P.S. The dealer called it a wheel nut, it was not the bolts for the axle nor was it the lug nuts. If you call it a spindle nut, then fine that's what it is.


It was found to be backed off upon inspection and the wheel was wobbling when we jacked her up. The only indication I had was a very slight tendancy to wander at highway speed. I was trying to figure out how I might laterally stabilize the rear end because I was sure the it wasn't the front end being loose on steering. My only indication of a problem on the rear end under this machine, was a drip on the axle seal.

 

You guys know what...Maybe I'm on the wrong forum. At least the Panhard rod idea was from this forum as somebody said it sounded like the tail wagging the dog. My steering is plenty tight, the tires have the right pressure, etc.
And I wouldn't even be pissed except no-one at Ford will accept my complaint that the "spindle nut" was backed off. I just wanted someone to tell me what they would do to make sure that didn't happen again. Instead I wasted 4 1/2 hours and they said they would put it into the Ford computer.

Some of you guys act like you don't want to know your wife is cheating on you and sling stuff at me like I'm ignorant.

As it turns out...it was the tail wagging the dog. The driver's side rear tire wobbling a bit will move around a lot of stuff at 70 mph. (it wasn't noticeable at 50 mpg or lower).

 

Just thinking out loud about your problem. I just got done removing my axle to do my brakes. The spindle nut gets torqued to about 20 foot pounds final torque but what actually holds the nut in place is a circular spring that draws the nut into indentations where it embeds. Im wondering if that spring broke which allowed the nut to back off. I think in regards to "crystallization", I think perhaps the idea was a leaking axle seal could eventually drain the pumpkin causing it to overheat, seize, and break. That is possible but very rare as usually other symptoms promp investigation or the leak is noticed first. I dont think the upfitters generally remove the wheels unless there is a suspension upgrade involved like a Mor-Ryde. Do you have any suspension mods and what motorhome is it? Glad you didnt get hurt.

 

markbrumbaugh,

As i said earlier, i am sorry you are having a problem, and i know it is frustrating.

However, let cooler heads prevail and lets look at the facts so far.

The vehicle has approximately 1950 miles on it, you have driven it 250 of those miles and it has developed a problem. Now nobody else detected a problem in the first 1700 miles of the vehicle life, which means that it wasn't noticeable before hand. The spindle nut could have been tight originally and loosened do to a defect in the part.

FMC takes safety seriously, but defective parts and human mistakes happen. Sounds like the local Ford dealer is fixing the problem, also sounds like the service writer does not know correct axle terminology. You may want to speak with the repair tech that is doing the actual work on the vehicle to get his feed back. As far as axle crystallizing, sounds like a term from the service writer and not the Service Tech doing the work.

As far as the vehicle wandering goes, a panhard bar is not going to solve this problem and could very easily make many other problems by installing one. I did not see any posts by you asking about solving a vehicle wandering problem on this vehicle. And i saw no one recommend you install a panhard bar.

As far as no wandering at 50 mph but wandering at 70 mph that can be caused by many things and still may not be related to your rear axle problem, a new rear axle may not stop the wandering at high speed.

Under inflated tires, overloaded tires, improperly loaded vehicle, ruts in the road, bad or incorrect shock absorbers or springs for load carried, incorrect sway bar size. I high profile large vehicle will wander much more at higher speeds than lower speeds. Kinetic energy increases much more rapidly as speed increases, because speed is squared in the equation for Kinetic energy.

So as your speed increases things become magnified much more quickly. Some roads are rough enough or rutted enough that you have to slow down to keep the vehicle from wandering.

I know it is frustrating to have your plans postponed, and yes as a business owner it is frustrating, but you can go back to work tommorrow if you are unable to take your vacation when you get your vehicle back.

Not trying to pick on you, just trying to shed a little perspective on this, vehicles are built by humans, parts fail, mistakes are made. I don't know what else you want FMC to do. They have acknowledged your complaint, and it sounds like the dealer is making repairs, they cannot guarantee you they will not have another part failure or human error in the future. Life is a gamble, there are no guarrantees in life other than you will die at some point and you will pay taxes.

Yes this is the wrong forum if you only came here to bitch and wine. If you are looking for solid answers then post all the facts you can about your vehicle and let us provide answers to your questions.

Hopefully the dealer will have your vehicle fixed soon and you can get back on the road.

 

I've had an E350 once before with a Mor-Ryde and it went out on me and I liked to never found out what it was. (On a Chinook)
There is no suspension upgrade on this unit. They put on airbags for one dealer, but my dealer doesn't order them that way. I just have a fiberglass box mounted on a frame. The only think they modify is the cab roof and the temporary plastic seats are replaced with nice leather.
You guys may be right about this not being the source of the wander...although I'm hoping it is. If I still have the wander, I'm sure I'll do a front end alignment next as the RV put on a lot of weight after it left the factory, presumably aligned. I'm not real intrigued with a Panhead bar either...and I think I may have mispoken and picked that up from an RV forum. But it was lucky I crawled under there and looked around.
I apologize for my ranting. But it really has cost me a bunch of money and disappointment as well as scared the hell out of us. I can't get my clients back...it took us three months to get this vacation period scheduled. I do consulting and the lead time for getting business is months....I can't just punch the clock tomorrow. But I can simmer down and thank goodness for good advice and that we are safe.

I just wish Ford would dialogue with me instead of sending me to mechanically ignorant call centers.

By the way...another thing the dealer said was that the "nut" was self locking, and it must have failed in some way or not been torqued correctly. I suspect that the spring detent is the issue. All the ones I ever monkeyed with were held on with cotter pins weren't they?

 

markbrumbaugh,

Glad to see things are starting to get into perspective. And yes losing work is a PITA. I have a couple of businesses myself, so i know your pain. Part of the trials and tribulations of owning your own business.

Large businesses tend to get call centers do to the volume of calls they recieve and many of the calls have nothing to do with the Manufacture, ie (someone putting a cup of hot coffee between their legs then spilling it and complaining to the person who sold them the coffee )

Axle nuts on the front sindles generally have cotter pins but most rear axles have a lock nut or clip.

And yes thank goodness you are all safe and the axle didn't break in the middle of no where at 2 AM.

Yes hopefully that was the source of the wandering, but if not come back and post your problem and let the great people of this forum help you out. Lots of good people and information around here.