Hey people,
I think everyone should get a copy of FoMoCo's SSM (Special Service Message) 19245 which deals with dealer diagnosed repeat turbo/VGT failures on '03 to '05 trucks. If a Turbo is replaced and the proper sequence for VGTLEARN is not followed, many trucks have come back and had another turbo assembly replaced. This is prevalent on trucks with the 06e17 reflash that eliminates the EBP circuit.
I have seen several trucks (including my own) that were diagnosed with bad turbos, had them replaced, and still had issues. On these particular trucks (pre 06e17 reflash with EBP still in the loop) driving with VDR (Vehicle Diagnostic Recorder) taking snapshots of engine management parameters doesn't always give info needed, however, hooking up a PDA through the PCM port and checking some basic parameters with KOEO (Key On, Engine Off) might give some people with problematic trucks much needed answers.
My truck was diagnosed with a bad turbo 880 miles after the original one was replaced at 28k. After the second diagnosis I borrowed a PDA from my friendly Ford Diesel tech (happens to be my drag racer buddy, NOT the one who said bad turbo) and did some checking KOEO. The problem my truck was having was intermittent lack of boost, no boost when dead cold until driven a couple of miles, no boost when ambient temp above 100 F and IAT above 114 F, serious turbo lag off idle, accompanied by major black smoke. What I found with the PDA was EBP sensor baro reading of 21.68 (inches of mercury) when at the particular temp/altitude reading should have been 14.1 to 14.3. Replaced EBP sensor and harness, rechecked readings and had 14.5. After install of new EBP sensor, off idle throttle response is much improved, no smoke, turbo whistles at dead cold startups, and best of all, correct boost at high ambient temps... all from replacing the EBP sensor, AFTER truck had been diagnosed with another bad turbo. I am really wondering if the first turbo was bad.
Keep in mind this is only for trucks with the EBP sensor still in the loop, and the previous (SSM 19245) is for trucks with 06e17 reflash with EBP delete. I fully realize plenty of trucks do have legitimate turbo failures, but in my case it was not as it first seemed.

Tim

 

I think this has been true in many cases. Also, with regard to Rear Main Seal leaks being mis-diagnosed...early on anyway.

 

My truck is an 05 and have the problems Socalsuperduty descirbes. I believe my last flash was 05E17. Does that mean I have the EBP in the loop or not?

 

blake,
See if you if you have the receipt from your Ford dealer, if the service writer was hip to what was up, he probably made some sort of mention on it as to the Reflash #.
Something like "recall campaign 05e15 performed". You can also look at the sticker under the hood on the core support, sometimes the tech will write in the # of the
actual flash, sometimes only dealer code. If you are in California or another 'Green' state, the latest flash is 06e17, EBP delete, but I have seen these trucks have reflashes performed incorrectly and not have the VGT work as intended, thus leading to false turbo failure diagnosis. See if you can figure out which flash you have, and that will lead you in the right direction as far as diagnosing the problem.

Tim

 

Hey Keith I fully agree about the rear main seals, I bet there were hundreds, if not thousands, of FoMoCo paid dealer warranty claims for leaky rear mains. I have seen many trucks (including my own) 'leak' for the first 1 or 2k miles and then stop, and we all know real oil leaks don't stop out of the blue!


Tim

 

Thanks Tim,
Even if I got a false diagnoses from the dealer I would be happy! I have the worst luck with dealers, they tell me oh, seems normal. Well it goes in again on tuesday. The turbo now screams like a crying baby, so hopefully they can't ignore that. It only shows about 10-12 lbs of boost. It won't go over 75 mph up a grade empty. With any load it is just a dog and smokes. Also, it is very laggy off of idle and this is the scariest issue.

 

blake, what part of our country do you happen to reside in?

 

Laramie, WY, about 7000 feet. I finish college in Dec. and went to work in the oil field for the last 9 months. I now have a more stable job in Laramie. So my pickup has been to about 5-6 different major dealers as problems have cropped up while on the road. I bought this outfit because I figured I needed something that would be newer and reliable for the job. Boy was that a mistake. I really like the pickup, but this many problems and too fight the dealer everytime is just a pain. It would be a lot easier if one dealt with a single dealer that one could develop a relationship with, but for me that has not been possible. What really drives me mad, is that I am a big auto and motorcycle / motorsport enthusiast and also I am an engineer, but when I go to any dealer, the techs respond to me like I am making these issues up. Like they have never had any problems with this engine!

 

blake,
I don't know where Laramie is, but I was at my cousins in Powell in March, and from what I hear, they can't find a good factory trained FoMoCo/Navistar diesel tech anywhere in the Cody area. Tons of Cat, Cummins and Detroit guys, but not alot of 'little' diesel guys. There are some great guys in SoCal, and I am sure you can find one up there somewhere, don't give up, but look around if the same dealer keeps giving you the runaround.

Tim

 

I have a 03" f-350 with 107k on it. Took it to the dealer and had 90k mile service done. Pick-up my truck the and could not even drive it out the parking lot. Looped back around to the service dept and left it. Got a call the next day and the dealership told me it was the turbo then the EBP sensor. Did not have that problem with it when I took it to them. Make a long story short there were 2 flash updates to the PCM that fixed the problem. Maybe thats in conjunction with other things.

 

The first turbo went south at 56K and the next two went one after another at about 60K. Inter cooler was split open on the last one also. I think they have replaced every sensor in the truck at least once. Now their replacing the rear main seal! It started puking oil last week. I'm gonna dump this truck just as fast as I can! Later Jc

 

Holy shi-, Turbos going bad, misdiagnosed leaking rear main seals?? You just discribed my truck!! I've been through three turbo's, Every sensor,one inter cooler and
now have an oil leak they thought was the rear main seal but that didn't fix it, dealer still looking for it!!! PLEASE tell me MORE!!! My direct e-mail is jvcaldwell@sbcglobal.net

 

Jeff my suggestion to you is get rid of it. The problems will only get worse. Bail out while you can, especially if your truck is still in good looking condition and you didn't lease it. I leased mine with the intention on purchasing at the end of my lease. Truck still looks very good but I have 107k on it and 2 yrs left on the lease. I'm stuck with the lemon.

 

good news is turbos are emmissions components.
bad news is i checked with my warranty clerk and the warranty is 5/50 no deductible, after 5/50 100 deductible.

 

blake,
Check out the reply I put in the 'check engine light on new turbo needed' post by bajaron. Your truck may very well need another turbo, but the EBP is definitely worth looking at if your truck does not have the 06e17 reflash, and definitely the BPS sensor is worth checking for correct barometric pressure readings.

Tim