Pilot bushing vs. bearing

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  #16  
Old 08-25-2006, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wick246
Yep stay tuned. It's taken me all summer to put 1,000 miles on it. In about 18 years we'll see what you win.
LOL

"Not supposed to. The theory is, the surface gets hot and the oil runs to lube it. Grease won't run easy enough. :/"
What oil are you talking about??? Actually it came with grease but I'm not sure exactly what it was made of.
Page 16-01-3 1975 FTM Volume1:
"A new clutch pilot bearing normally does not require lubricant. However, due to long storage periods, it may lose some of the lubricant pressed into the bearing in manufacture. Therefore, soak the new bearing in SAE 30 non-detergent-type motor oil for a minimum of one-half hour before installation. Wipe off all excessive oil before installing. Do not lubricate bearing with grease of any type."

The paragraph before that made it clear they are talking about a "solid bronze oil-impregnated pilot bearing".

I forgot about the non detergent oil part too. :/

That additive theoretically builds up on the surface and chokes off the oil supply, just like the grease does.

Alvin in AZ
 
  #17  
Old 08-25-2006, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kotzy
I worked for a company that had a fleet of p500"s with 300 cid engines and 5 speeds. The way those trucks were treated by all but a few drivers was something to see. The pilot bushings in most cases ran until the engines were pulled and rebuilt 100 to 150 thousand miles. These things were on newspaper delivery and the clutches were used hard, as I wrote before the bushing only works when the clutch is disengaged.
My personal experience is all I have to go by and it's sadly just the opposite of yours. Didn't matter what I did. Replaced the bronze bearing everytime and tried greasing it, tried oiling it with non-detergent 30 wt, tried doing nothing too. Nothing helped (or even made it worse) each one went bad in about 20,000 miles.

Lots of things have been blamed on the pilot bearings' failures but none have been proven.

I gave up and put in a 6303 sealed ball bearing this last time.

I didn't do anything else that time. No new clutch or re-surfaced flywheel nothin, even had my flywheel re-balanced once. Rebuilt the T18 and replaced the front transmission bearing cover//throw-out bearing guide with a brand new steel one.

This last time pulled out that wallered out pilot "bushing" and replaced it with the 6303 sealed ball bearing and slammed it back together. And the clutch feels like new!

You know how hard it is to have a really-bad-clutch and pull the transmission, then put it back together and not do anything but replace the pilot bearing?

Alvin in AZ
 
  #18  
Old 08-27-2006, 08:33 AM
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Alvin, when you say the buhing went bad what do you mean? Squealing Noise, shaft
moves in bushing, looks worn, what explain, thanks
 
  #19  
Old 08-27-2006, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kotzy
Alvin, when you say the buhing went bad what do you mean? Squealing Noise, shaft moves in bushing, looks worn, what explain, thanks
The hole gets big! :/

I don't believe it's wear, I believe it's battererd out because the T18 input shaft looks good as new.

Over the years lots of things have been blamed on this but none of them have panned out. Stuff like new T18 input shaft bearing etc, and the list goes on and on.

Just because I've been using clutches for 37 years don't mean I do it right?
Maybe it's just me? :/ I drive the pickup like an old lady, maybe that's the problem? Oh and a 3.25 axle with 235/85-16 tires and they don't make a 15 tooth speedo gear to correct the odometer (stop at 16). In other words my "gearing" is out of the original "design range".

Called and talked to a guy at Cleveland Clutch(?) (where the kevlar pilot bearings were originated) and he said to replace the bronze bearing with a sealed ball bearing. He didn't know the number off-hand (but I sure as heck did, I'd already researched that.

That's a 6303 for FE's

I bought a kevlar bearing from Summit, it was sized for the 351 (their data base was messed up) Summit took it back no sweat and told me who to call, the originators of the kevlar pilot bearing. They don't make 'em for FE's tho.

He swore up and down the kevlar pilot bearing "would have fixed me up for life" ...if they made one. An outer bushing to adapt the 351 kevlar bearing to an FE didn't look good at the time either.

So he suggested the next best thing in my case "a sealed ball bearing".

And that's what I wanted to hear. I wanted to hear it was ok to replace the bronze bearing with a sealed ball bearing from somebody that should know.

That's my story.

Right now I'm in the process of changing to 3.50 gears and with the new lower gearing a 16 tooth speedo gear could set my odometer right for the first time since 1976.

Finally back within design perameters.

Alvin in AZ (75 F150 360 T18 and Traction-Loc Ford 9")
 
  #20  
Old 08-27-2006, 08:01 PM
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I'll ask one more question, has the engine been out or the bell housing changed? If the alignment guides were omitted or if they are pushed into either of the holes bored for them to where they don't do what they were intended to do, you get excess runout between the center line of the crank to the inputshaft of the transmission.
This needs to be within .010 of an inch. It can cause a multitude of problems from the bushing failures to jumping out of high gear.
 

Last edited by kotzy; 08-27-2006 at 08:05 PM.
  #21  
Old 08-27-2006, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kotzy
...excess runout betwwen the center line of the crank to the inputshaft ot the transmission. This needs tobe within bout .010 of an inch. It can cause a multitude of problems from the bushing failures to jumping out of high gear.
Everything is bone stock. No pins missing or anything like that. Really.

The runout you mention is the one area that might be my problem!

No kidding tho, if there is any excessive runout, it was put there at the factory.

If so, won't be the first thing I've found like that. And I've always had trouble with the clutch and always suspected it to be something causing the pilot bearing to batter-out and the pilot bearing only being a sysmtom. Recently proved the symtom, at least, with the 6303 ball bearing.

I recently bought a dial indicator with magnetic base for the ring and pinion swap I'm doing myself...

How do I measure the runout you mention?

I have the 1975 Ford Truck Shop Manual and looked for that information several times with no luck. If it's in there helping me find it might be the easier to type out?

--------

1975 Ford Truck Shop Manual, page 16-01-3...
"Pilot Bearing (Ball Type)"
...
"Coat the pilot bearing bore in the crankshaft with a small quanity of lithium base grease."

I did that with my new 6303 ball bearing, used the red stuff.

Alvin in AZ
ps- I've had the '75 FTSM's longer than pickup, they came in the mail before the dealership got my special-ordered pickup in
 
  #22  
Old 08-28-2006, 06:53 AM
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You will have to make a fixture to bolt to the crank flange with a piece of stock welded to th center of it long enough to come thru the bore of the bell housing
which supports the transmission bearing retainer. This will be a T like thing. I prefer to use a clamp rather then the magnetic base on the dial indicator. Clamp the indicator so the stem can be adjusted to ride the inner machined surface of the bell
housing bore. It makes no difference if the fabrication you make is not perfectly centered as your indicator will be clamped to a spot and the distance from that point to the bore will be the the same thruout 360 degrees. After this is installed someone
will have to turn the engine by hand and you have to read the gauge. If the runout
is excessive it will mean removing one or both line up pins, centering it, clamping it withthe bell housing bolts and reaming the existing holes to a larger pin or boring others and reaming them to the present size. I haven't see this a lot in my years but it does sometimes happen. Hope this may be of some help.
 
  #23  
Old 08-28-2006, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by kotzy
You will have to make a fixture to bolt to the crank flange with a piece of stock welded to th center of it long enough to come thru the bore of the bell housing which supports the transmission bearing retainer. This will be a T like thing. I prefer to use a clamp rather then the magnetic base on the dial indicator. Clamp the indicator so the stem can be adjusted to ride the inner machined surface of the bell housing bore. It makes no difference if the fabrication you make is not perfectly centered as your indicator will be clamped to a spot and the distance from that point to the bore will be the the same thruout 360 degrees. After this is installed someone will have to turn the engine by hand and you have to read the gauge. If the runout is excessive it will mean removing one or both line up pins, centering it, clamping it withthe bell housing bolts and reaming the existing holes to a larger pin or boring others and reaming them to the present size. I haven't see this a lot in my years but it does sometimes happen. Hope this may be of some help.
Cool, thanks, Kotzy. That was clear as a bell.
And will be no sweat to accomplish now that "I know-how".

Alvin in AZ
 
  #24  
Old 09-01-2006, 02:01 AM
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http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/bushing&remover.jpg

That's a fine thread 7/16" grade-8 bolt and the nut is simply ground-round (as seen from the side) so it can slip through the 11/16" bronze-bearing's hole.

For the most part the nut still looks normal when viewed from the "front".

Ok, so yeah, you have to do a little fishing around before the bolt threads into the loose nut, but it's easier, in practice, than it sounds.

Just tighten it and the bushing is forced out.

If you'd rather use grease... be my guest!

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/guidepins.jpg

Those are the guide pins I bought to put my T18 back in, in '78.

As far as I'm concerned, they are just as usefull for pulling the T18 as putting it back in. I remove the crossmember bolts from the frame and slide the whole works back until it clears the bell housing. I can pull and replace my T18 by myself and the only jack I use is under a block of wood under the 360's (FE) oil pan to keep it supported.

Alvin in AZ
 
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