Pilot bushing spun in flywheel
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Joined: Jul 2008
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From: N.GA Mountains
Pilot bushing spun in flywheel
I have the engine out (again 
) fixing oil pan leak and when I pulled clutch out - discovered SB kevlar bushing spun in the flywheel. I sent the clutch disc back to SB for refacing of the organic side (due to oil contamination). I asked about the bushing and was told to check input shaft for play. Input shaft is TIGHT in transmission. The bushing appears snug over the shaft, but the shaft has some scars from failed pilot bearings. This bushing/clutch set has just a little over 10k miles on it. Is it possible this had something to do with the oil/fuel contamination? I will 'polish' the input shaft better this time - is there anything else I can do? WHY is the Ford ZF6 pilot bearing/bushing such a PROBLEM?? 
I put an autozone clutch in for almost as many miles and the bushing didn't even look 'used' when I ended up rebuilding engine. ($500 autozone clutch set w/kevlar pilot bushing and single-mass flywheel $350 plus shipping obo to a forum member
)
) fixing oil pan leak and when I pulled clutch out - discovered SB kevlar bushing spun in the flywheel. I sent the clutch disc back to SB for refacing of the organic side (due to oil contamination). I asked about the bushing and was told to check input shaft for play. Input shaft is TIGHT in transmission. The bushing appears snug over the shaft, but the shaft has some scars from failed pilot bearings. This bushing/clutch set has just a little over 10k miles on it. Is it possible this had something to do with the oil/fuel contamination? I will 'polish' the input shaft better this time - is there anything else I can do? WHY is the Ford ZF6 pilot bearing/bushing such a PROBLEM?? I put an autozone clutch in for almost as many miles and the bushing didn't even look 'used' when I ended up rebuilding engine. ($500 autozone clutch set w/kevlar pilot bushing and single-mass flywheel $350 plus shipping obo to a forum member
)
still plays with trucks
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Twin Falls Idaho
My experience with the Kevlar bushing is similar. only I had 50K and it was worn out about a 1/4 inch. It just fell out of the crank. I did the 6.0 updated input and modified flywheel. Basicly the input now has a 1 in pilot instead of the 5/8 and it uses a sealed roller bearing pilot instead of an open needle bearing. Southbend did the machining on the flywheel to accept the new bearing. you might ask them if they can do something for you, maybe they have a fix that will allow you to keep the 5/8 shaft and use a bigger roller bearing pilot.
Barney
Barney
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Morgan Hill, CA
Bob has a kit that I think might be the best idea short of machining the flywheel for a larger bearing. http://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=588
The one thing I noticed about the pilot bushings is the one from Clay was a larger OD by about .015" than the one I pulled out. The one I pulled out was a slip fit. Clay's took a little bit of tapping with the hammer since I didn't have a driver handy, but it is "pressed" in now.
The one thing I noticed about the pilot bushings is the one from Clay was a larger OD by about .015" than the one I pulled out. The one I pulled out was a slip fit. Clay's took a little bit of tapping with the hammer since I didn't have a driver handy, but it is "pressed" in now.
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From: N.GA Mountains
Bob has a kit that I think might be the best idea short of machining the flywheel for a larger bearing. http://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=588
The one thing I noticed about the pilot bushings is the one from Clay was a larger OD by about .015" than the one I pulled out. The one I pulled out was a slip fit. Clay's took a little bit of tapping with the hammer since I didn't have a driver handy, but it is "pressed" in now.
The one thing I noticed about the pilot bushings is the one from Clay was a larger OD by about .015" than the one I pulled out. The one I pulled out was a slip fit. Clay's took a little bit of tapping with the hammer since I didn't have a driver handy, but it is "pressed" in now.
Here's what the spun bushing looked like:
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Morgan Hill, CA
So that bushing spun inside the flywheel? It looks more like the input chewed it a bit. Did it literally fall out when removed? My old one slipped right out but did not show signs of spinning.
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From: N.GA Mountains
The input shaft prolly boogered the bushing a little pulling engine the way I did, but if it spun it was due to grabbing the input shaft - right?
It did not 'fall out', I had to push it - but it wasn't very tight.
I'll take a pic of the input shaft and mic everything for the heck of it, even my old flywheel(s). I suspect the damage to input shaft from failed pilot bearings is the root cause. How hard is it to replace the input shaft? At 320k miles maybe I should consider rebuilding trans as PM??
I have access to machine shops to get flywheel modded for 6.0 pilot bearing. If the input shaft is ok or repaired/replaced - I will strongly consider doing this.
It did not 'fall out', I had to push it - but it wasn't very tight.
I'll take a pic of the input shaft and mic everything for the heck of it, even my old flywheel(s). I suspect the damage to input shaft from failed pilot bearings is the root cause. How hard is it to replace the input shaft? At 320k miles maybe I should consider rebuilding trans as PM??
I have access to machine shops to get flywheel modded for 6.0 pilot bearing. If the input shaft is ok or repaired/replaced - I will strongly consider doing this.
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still plays with trucks
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Twin Falls Idaho
rebuilding the ZF6 if not a project for the faint of heart. the input shaft if the last thing out and the first thing in. It requires some specialized pullers and holding fixtures. If you're really considering a new/reman one, my suggestion would be to call Dan at Midwest Transmission 888-824-2012. A updated Zf6 with all the mods and bigger input shaft and updates is only 1895.00.
He can also explain the necessary flywheel mods.
I am very pleased with the tranny and clutch I got from him. great customer service too! Roland( Mueckster) has some pics in one of his folders if you want to see.
Barney
He can also explain the necessary flywheel mods.
I am very pleased with the tranny and clutch I got from him. great customer service too! Roland( Mueckster) has some pics in one of his folders if you want to see.
Barney
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 2
From: Pasadena, Maryland
rebuilding the ZF6 if not a project for the faint of heart. the input shaft if the last thing out and the first thing in. It requires some specialized pullers and holding fixtures. If you're really considering a new/reman one, my suggestion would be to call Dan at Midwest Transmission 888-824-2012. A updated Zf6 with all the mods and bigger input shaft and updates is only 1895.00.
He can also explain the necessary flywheel mods.
I am very pleased with the tranny and clutch I got from him. great customer service too! Roland( Mueckster) has some pics in one of his folders if you want to see.
Barney
He can also explain the necessary flywheel mods.
I am very pleased with the tranny and clutch I got from him. great customer service too! Roland( Mueckster) has some pics in one of his folders if you want to see.
Barney
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Morgan Hill, CA
About 270k on mine. Still worked good, but had a few issues I didn't really notice. At one point I asked here in the forum about motor mounts since I thought one was bad. I would give it throttle in 3rd and the shifter would move an inch or two to the right. Turns out it was the gears moving in the box. 
New one is rock solid. Also had noises that really prompted me to get a new one. It would howl a little in OD and also pop out of 4th sometimes.
New one is rock solid. Also had noises that really prompted me to get a new one. It would howl a little in OD and also pop out of 4th sometimes.
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From: N.GA Mountains
For $1850, I will swap this trans out - when I get a minute... THANKS for the info Barney!
I didn't write anything down, but the bushing that spun has alot of material missing from the inside. It has also moved toward the transmission and milled down the face of the bushing as well.
I replaced first clutch at about 180k miles due to oil/fuel contamination and found pilot bearing FUBAR. About 100k later, I pulled trans to replace pilot bearing with kevlar bushing and found bearing FUBAR, but was surprised to find the LUK worn out as well (springs falling out of clutch disc and friction material all but gone!). This lead to autozone clutch, since I had somewhere to be the next day. It wasn't long after that the engine got rebuilt and I put a SBC Con OFE in - and this is the spun bushing in pic...
Sooooo, I see a reoccurring problem that has not been addressed. This trans appears to work fine except for syncros not so good in a couple gears. I have a new engine, if new trans meant not having to do anything to this truck for another 300k miles - count me in!!!
Besides, thats less than 3 payments on a 2011, right?? 
I didn't write anything down, but the bushing that spun has alot of material missing from the inside. It has also moved toward the transmission and milled down the face of the bushing as well.
I replaced first clutch at about 180k miles due to oil/fuel contamination and found pilot bearing FUBAR. About 100k later, I pulled trans to replace pilot bearing with kevlar bushing and found bearing FUBAR, but was surprised to find the LUK worn out as well (springs falling out of clutch disc and friction material all but gone!). This lead to autozone clutch, since I had somewhere to be the next day. It wasn't long after that the engine got rebuilt and I put a SBC Con OFE in - and this is the spun bushing in pic...
Sooooo, I see a reoccurring problem that has not been addressed. This trans appears to work fine except for syncros not so good in a couple gears. I have a new engine, if new trans meant not having to do anything to this truck for another 300k miles - count me in!!!
Besides, thats less than 3 payments on a 2011, right??
still plays with trucks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,743
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From: Twin Falls Idaho
Jetdoc, I only got 160K out of my original tranny. But it had a rough life before I got it. Tom Dually(my truck), was an old government work mule pulling 30 ft trailers to the tops of mountains and remote weather stations. then I got him and now he pulls an 18K 5th wheel around the country!
When I put in the new tranny, I also added a larger tranny cooler, extra capacity housing, and an external filter. Tom works hard so I figure I'd better give him all the help I can.
Barney
When I put in the new tranny, I also added a larger tranny cooler, extra capacity housing, and an external filter. Tom works hard so I figure I'd better give him all the help I can.
Barney