Moisture in airline
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Washington
Moisture in airline
Bought a compressor and some tools a while back with the idea I'd fix up my 93 F250. Thought I'd practice first by painting my '53 Golden Jubilee (Ford tractor) which needs it bad.
I've got a problem I think I need to solve before I shoot paint though.
I put a moisture separator at the tank and another small one at the tool end of a 50' hose. When using the die grinder for any period of time I get moisture in the tool end separator but also some droplets blow out of the grinder occasionally.
I vent the separator often but it doesn't seem to get all of the water out. I bought a throw away filter that supposed to collect an ounce of water and it does the same thing.
I drain the compressor tank (33 gal upright) when I begin using it and there's always a bit of water in there. The separator at the tank NEVER has a drop of water in it.
I'm thinking the moister I'm seeing at the tool is condensing out through the hose.
Any help would be appreciated.
South
I've got a problem I think I need to solve before I shoot paint though.
I put a moisture separator at the tank and another small one at the tool end of a 50' hose. When using the die grinder for any period of time I get moisture in the tool end separator but also some droplets blow out of the grinder occasionally.
I vent the separator often but it doesn't seem to get all of the water out. I bought a throw away filter that supposed to collect an ounce of water and it does the same thing.
I drain the compressor tank (33 gal upright) when I begin using it and there's always a bit of water in there. The separator at the tank NEVER has a drop of water in it.
I'm thinking the moister I'm seeing at the tool is condensing out through the hose.
Any help would be appreciated.
South
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,848
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From: Kentucky
I built a air line system in my garage that ended with a 3 stage filter system at the wall outlet so I could paint my truck. I put a decisessant (sp?) filter as the last filter out. I never has ANY moisture problems with my bc/cc paint job. Yet, my die grinder still drips water under heavy uasge....
I think it is just a fluke of the die grinder and nothing to do with condensation in your air line. To test that theory, run the die grinder untill it starts dripping. Unplug the DG and plug in a blowgun and spray a wall with the BG. If water keeps coming out of the hose, yes , you have condensate problems. If not, it is just the tool sweating.
I think it is just a fluke of the die grinder and nothing to do with condensation in your air line. To test that theory, run the die grinder untill it starts dripping. Unplug the DG and plug in a blowgun and spray a wall with the BG. If water keeps coming out of the hose, yes , you have condensate problems. If not, it is just the tool sweating.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2004
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Die grinders use a lot of air, and get run for long periods. So condensation problems will be more noticeable with them than with paint guns.
For painting, you really should have at least 50 feet of hard line (copper or iron pipe).
Slope the pipe back towards the compressor, use drip legs, and take the air off the top of the pipe. There are many articles in this forum and others describing how to set up shop air piping.
That rubber or vinyl hose is too good of an insulator and doesn't cool the air enough. Plus all the low spots in the hose collect water, which then gets pushed down the hose during periods of high demand.
For painting, you really should have at least 50 feet of hard line (copper or iron pipe).
Slope the pipe back towards the compressor, use drip legs, and take the air off the top of the pipe. There are many articles in this forum and others describing how to set up shop air piping.
That rubber or vinyl hose is too good of an insulator and doesn't cool the air enough. Plus all the low spots in the hose collect water, which then gets pushed down the hose during periods of high demand.
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Washington
Hmmm. I did notice the die grinders do get cold when run for a bit. I didn't realize plumbing in hard airline, in itself, helped to remove moisture.
In my case my prep and paint booth is one of those 10x20 canopies I bought from the local wholesale club for $170.
If you have the room it's great for something like this tractor. Considering it'll probably take me at least two months to break it all down, prep, paint and put it back together. It sets up or tears down in about 2 hours, keeps all the dust out of my shop, etc.
For painting I pressurized it with a couple of box fans, two furnace filters and some duct tape.
In my case my prep and paint booth is one of those 10x20 canopies I bought from the local wholesale club for $170.
If you have the room it's great for something like this tractor. Considering it'll probably take me at least two months to break it all down, prep, paint and put it back together. It sets up or tears down in about 2 hours, keeps all the dust out of my shop, etc.
For painting I pressurized it with a couple of box fans, two furnace filters and some duct tape.
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2003
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The only sure way to remove all the moisture from an air system is a refrigerated condensing unit. Where I worked we had a condensing unit and never had any water in the air again. We had 11 mechanics drawing air.
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Washington
I gotta say thanks. I posted a slightly different version of this question in the paint forum since that's my concern. There's a lot of prep work with this old tractor and loader. Too much to screw up with a bad paint job.
Today I painted the loader and it looks good but then its dark so I'll see tomorrow.
I took a suggestion and coiled up some hose in a cooler. Also opened the petcock on my tank a bit. The true test would've been to run the die grinder but I needed some gratification for all that sanding I'd done so I painted.
I had to remind myself that the tractor is practice, so I started practicing!
I also have to say, how did I live without air tools?
Today I painted the loader and it looks good but then its dark so I'll see tomorrow.
I took a suggestion and coiled up some hose in a cooler. Also opened the petcock on my tank a bit. The true test would've been to run the die grinder but I needed some gratification for all that sanding I'd done so I painted.
I had to remind myself that the tractor is practice, so I started practicing!
I also have to say, how did I live without air tools?
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Posting Legend
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How big is your tank/receiver and do you keep it cool? The receiver is the primary moisture removal device in a normal shop air system. It provides a large surface for the moisture to condense on. The hose outlet should NOT be the same place as the air goes into the receiver. All to often on cheapo compressors the outlet, inlet, filter, pressure switch. relief, and gage are combined into one unit.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Travelers Rest SC
I use a filter that uses a roll of toilet paper. The real replacement cartridges aren't actually toilet paper, of course, but the T/P works just as well, and is a lot cheaper. You just have to remember to replace it once in a while. As for the grinder, the moisture is likely coming from it being so cold. As a gas (such as air) expands, it get's really cold. If you open a propane cylinder, ice will form around the valve. So, like a glass of ice water on a hot day, the tool will sweat, even if the compressed air itself is dry. Sprayers use a lot less air, so they shouldn't sweat unless it's too hot and humid to paint anyway.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 788
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From: Hendersonville, TN
That toilet paper dryer is the ticket. Look for Motor Guard on a search and you'll find it. They are THE THING for painting. Also, yeah, at least 50 ft of hard metal line with the water separator on the end should work well. Cools the air charge enough to let the moisture condense out of the air. Something as high-demand as the die grinder might overcome that alone, but the motor guard deal should catch the rest. Just change it out often, and especially right before painting.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Sapulpa OK
The only way to dry your air is to either cool it, ( the cheapest ) or to run it through a chemical. Even running it through a chemical you need to cool it down to room temp before the chemical is effectve. As long as the air is hot it will contain moiture which will condense out anywhere along the pipe network when it cools. Your die grinder expands the air during use and expansion = cooling hence the condensation. As long as the moisture remains above the dewpoint temperature it will remain a gas and go right through a filter or seperator. Filters are designed to remove liquids not gasses. Dessicant dryers will remove water vapor but are expensive.The best way is to cool your compressed air to around 100° right after it leaves the compressor and before it enters the receiver. 60% of the water will condense there and you can drain it off from the bottom of the tank. The remaining moisture will condense out if you refrigerate it after the receiver. Most refrigerated dryers will lower the dewpoint of the air to 35° F. This means the air will be dry untill its temperature is lowered below 35°. Not likely in most applications.
good luck
Steve
good luck
Steve
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,988
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From: Travelers Rest SC
I use the toilet paper filter at the end of the line, not at the compressor. That way, the air gets a chance to cool. I've never had water when spraying w/ the filter, and west central fl is about as hot and humid as it gets.
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