I personally think it's a smokescreen to divert attention from jobs migrating overseas- which is an entirely different issue altogether. Reason I say that- all the politicos that are pushing this seem to come from the Mid-West or East, which have been losing production jobs like crazy. Of course, not to Mexican immigrants, or any other immigrant either- a fact that gets conveniently ignored.

edit: Soooo..... instead of asking another really tough question, like "Who actually benefits from the new Global Economy?" we get fidiots that want to build a wall between ourselves and Mexico. Like they've never heard of a tunnel before.

 

NAFTA was created to help all three countries.

Basically Canada has given away their resources at bargain basement prices

The USA has lost jobs to off shore companies mainly because of cheaper wages.

I thought Mexico had the most to gain and aside from living in the US getting a great wage and not paying taxes,receiving the full benefit, etc.

Why would they leave Mexico ?

Something is causing it

Canada gets illegal immigrants claiming refugee status all the time.
Heck we even had a couple of American citizens claim refugee status a few years ago.

Canada is in the same predicament trying to sort out the good from the bad.

 

Disproportionate incarceration, gangs, drugs ..

Wanna march, keep marchin south, you the way.

 

jobs americans wont do? hmmm like what?
lets see my first job was WASHING DISHES
my second Job was WORKING AT A JUNKYARD
my third job was CLEANING TOILETS
as i look around town i see all thejobs that the kids used to do now taken up by immigrants
the kid at the gas pump is now a 50 something middleeastern guy
the kid that used to collect the shopping carts is now a 40 yr old indian guy

 

PB,

Sorry I have to disagree with one of your earlier posts. Even the talk of amnesty for the existing 11-12 million has increased the pressure on our southern border. This is 1986 all over again, and we see how well that worked.

It is not just lettuce pickers, gardeners and maids. Good paying construction and auto mechanic jobs are going to illegals. There are more of them working in construction than any other category. "Jobs Americans wont do", what a crock. Even car wash jobs used to go to inner-city youth when I was growing up in Los Angeles in the 1960's.

Jim

 

I guess I have to chime in. Illeagal immigartion is a pet peeve of mine. The first problem is that some want to grant amnesty to FELONS which is what you are as soon as you sneak across the border. As for the whole "jobs that Americans won't do", what a crock. I don't see any illeagals around here pumping port-a-potties, or septic tanks. About the only thing they do is cut grass, landscaping, and construction work...all jobs that I have done. There are alot of small business people being run out of business because a competitor goes to the local home improvement store and picks up some illegals to work for the day. Locally, one of these home improvement places put up a shelter for these clowns to stand under while they wait for work! We have to secure our southern border. How easy would it be for terrorists to sneak in?

 

"But then again, this isn't the subject of this thread." True, but you make an excellent point.
Dono

 

I worked many hard labor jobs. Try stacking 50 lb. sacks of road salt 10 hours a day, you'll know what i'm talkin bout.

I'm better off now, but it took a lot of work. I mow my own lawn, and raise my own garden! I do my own repairs, ( Good ol 76 Ford ! ) house etc. I enjoy these tasks. Sure i have a nice car.
I worked hard for these things.

Prejudice ? difficult not to be in this instance.

 

Annex the whole country - call it South Texas or some such. Take all the border control money and use it for welfare. Replace all of their crooks (with and without badges) with our "honest" elected officials. Then they won't have to sneak in - they'll already be here.

It can be our worker state - we can build tech schools down there (with language courses) and raise whole new generations of drones for the upper states.

Wait - don't call it South Texas. Call it Utopia.

 

I live in Northern Utah ( Rural Corrine ) and worked for Great Salt Lake Mineral for a time ( road salt ). Their is a serious drug/gang problem in inner city Ogden. I read in the Standard Examiner almost daily about a "Perp" ( Southern Minority, Im not being prejudiced here ) who shot, robbed, beat, drugs, meth, you name it, is in trouble.

To political ?

Here's an article I'll quote directly from the same paper:

Where is the shame of the Mexican govenment?

What does it tell the rest of the world that is watching what's going on in this country about the Mexican government and its president? Not hundred, not thousand, but millions of its citizens leave that country in order to find a better way of life. Thats is not just shameful but also disgraceful.

Miguel R. Sxxxx, Jr.
Clearfield
A minority himself.
We are all from somewhere alse, but we immigrated legally.

Any thoughts?

 

First, my complements to the moderators for letting us discuss something that is of vital interest to us all.
There was a time when ANY job had a taker, and there was not a stampede across our border because there were no jobs to lure them. WWII brought us out of that great depression, made us the world's manufacturer and set us into an era of unprecedented prosperity .... and gluttony. As was bound to happen, destroyed manufacturing bases were rebuilt, nations emerged as the global economy evolved and the playing field began to tilt again. We now seek to maintain the world's highest standard of living and remain the largest consumer with a service economy surviving on debt. China, India and other countries are going from bicycles to autos and executing carefully crafted long term growth plans to take advantage of the situation as it is .... they are not living in a dream world trying to maintain yesterday. America's idea of a long-term plan is the end of this quarter. Think it is bad now? You haven't seen nothing yet.
In answer to your query:

"Jobs Americans wont do", is bunch a crap."
Should read, "at the same wages".

"Illegal emigants are driving wages down!"
Absolutely, and they are living on those wages.

"Whatever happened to a living wage?"
The one that paid a high school graduate $27 per hour to operate a widget machine? Gone, we buy our widgets from China now.

"The wealthy are taking advantage.!"
Welcome to the real world.

Dono

 

Being here illegally is illegal, but I don't believe that it's a felony - yet! They're working in that though...


Being here illegally is illegal, but speaking Spanish isn't - there are lots of places in this country where they spoke spanish long before they spoke English. And other languages before that. Replace "Spanish" with the language of your choice and repeat as many times as necessary...

But I have to smile when I hear "illegals are this, illegals are that..." Truth has to be that illegals are like everyone else; there those who want nothing more than to work hard and make a decent living, there are those that would slit your throat for a dime - and there are a whole lot in between...

The flow from "there" to here is like simple physics or maybe chemistry. There's a lot of "pressure" in making a living "there", less so here. Things flow from high pressure to low pressure. Want to stop the flow? Increase the pressure here, or decrease the pressure there - take your pick. Personally I'd rather see things improve there than degrade more here...

 

Your arguments are well said and worth considering.

Perhaps we should begin to pressure the government of Mexico.

 

I could be wrong about it being a felony, but I don't think so. Speaking Spanish isn't my problem. Speak what you want, but learn English. My grandmother spoke only German until she ws 12, but she learned English because that is the language spoken here. My problem isn't with where people are from, it's how they end up here. Mexico's government is corrupt (like ours isn't?) and that is tough on the people living there. That still doesn't excuse them from breaking the law. If you're hungry and rob a liquor store for money for food, you have still violated the law and will be punished accordingly. We have got to stop making excuses for them and do something about this problem. The last time something like this happened and the people living here waited to do something, we had the "trail of tears" and the loss of Native American land. We can't make the same mistake.

 

jimandmandy PB,

Sorry I have to disagree with one of your earlier posts. Even the talk of amnesty for the existing 11-12 million has increased the pressure on our southern border. This is 1986 all over again, and we see how well that worked.

It is not just lettuce pickers, gardeners and maids. Good paying construction and auto mechanic jobs are going to illegals. There are more of them working in construction than any other category. "Jobs Americans wont do", what a crock. Even car wash jobs used to go to inner-city youth when I was growing up in Los Angeles in the 1960's.

We probably don't disagree. I'm thinking more along these lines- if the aforementioned employers and employees actually had to pay their social security, healthcare, and school taxes, along with the appropriate income taxes, this whole wage thing would be a completely different story. and it'd be a lot less attractive to hire an "illegal."