This month's "Diesel Power" reports that Nissan may be using the 4.5-liter International (currently found in the Ford medium Duty LCF commercial cab-chassis) in their full size truck. Even more interesting, the magazine reports that the V-6 International was initially to go into the '04 F-150.

What happened Ford??!!

-Mike

 

I think it was to big. Putting a square peg in round hole.

 

That is incorrect. The 4.5 V-6 was engineered for that market. And it is not as though the Nissan full size has an engine compartment much larger than the F-150.

-Mike

 

OK. Joking aside. Here is correct in regards to the "What happen Ford?" portion of your post.

Excerpt from Automotive News in Feb. / 03
Last year, Ford abruptly canceled plans to buy International Truck's 4.5-liter diesel V-6 for the new F-150. International Truck swallowed a $170 million charge to cover the cost of engine development and factory tooling.

The company later received compensation from Ford. Terms of the settlement were not disclosed.

Martens has ruled out new contracts with International Truck. "We stopped work with International on the V-6," Martens says. "Right now, there are no plans to restart that work."

Martens did not indicate why Ford killed the V-6 deal. But it is believed that the engine was too costly and would not have met future pollution standards. Ford also may have been concerned about the emissions system's durability.

In addition I have read, but not going to search for now, that the dual turbo plumbing in the 4.5 design is what will not fit in the current F-150.

Not saying it is gospel.

Regardless, the first half ton to hit the streets with a production diesel will likely do well and take market share from all the big trucks. No matter who the mfg. is.

 

From Autoblog a couple of months ago:

Nissan, presumably helped by big brother Renault, might bring diesel versions of its big trucks and SUVs to the U.S. to combat consumer reaction to high gas prices. The automaker would follow the Big 3 in such a move, although the domestics offer diesel engines as an option more for their copious amounts of useful torque than their gas mileage. We're unclear which angle Nissan would choose to market these diesel-powered vehicles

The article you reference:

This is from page 18 of the March '06 edition of Diesel Power magazine by PRIMEDIA.

"Now that both Nissan and Toyota are offering four-door fullsize trucks in North America, it's only a matter of time before one (or both) of them comes to market with a diesel engine option. We've heard-and are now spreading- rumors that the Nissan is toying with the idea of offering the International 4.5L twin turbo V-6 diesel in its Titan pickup. This engine, originally slated to go in the '04 Ford F150, is called the VT275 and is rated for 200-250hp and 400-450 lb-ft of torque. If Nissan engineers could package the 930-pound engine and back it with a drivetrain that could handle the torque, we think it'd have a winner.

Looks like a lot of speculation by the mag boys without much substance. As usual though, It is the sizzle that sells.

 

Sad part of this statement is that it isn't a new idea, just came later than the trucks were available, as GM offered 1/2 ton trucks with the 5.7 and 6.2 for years, but the demand wasn't there. Now the motors are all to big and heavy for 1/2 ton trucks, so there isn't one available, but now there is demand for them....

 

the 4.5 is a big engine and very loud at that. we have them in the LCF at work. they are as wide as a 6.0 PSD but have a ton of controls on them. the noise is also that of a 6.0 if not louder. its also a little heavy. weighs almost 930 lbs.

 

kw5413:

Great post. Thanks.

-Mike

 

Fellro86:

But remember that while GM was first to market with the light diesel, those engines were so bad that GM actually destroyed the potential diesel market for years to come. You will recall that people were swapping those early diesels out of their big cars as fast as they could. And the early GM diesel in the light truck had a hard time getting out of its own way. Our GM service trucks from the 80"s through early 90's had "new engine <date>" stickers posted one on top of the other above the door- some 6 and 7 tall. It wasn't that the demand for a reliable efficient motor was not there- it was that GM did so much to turn people away from diesels that they quickly vanished from the US market. Only years later did Mercedes and VW begin to return their diesel power plants to the US market.

And of course Ford paved the way forward by adopting the International engine that IH had intended to re-introduce with their new pickup. Unfortunately, IH went under before that happened and Navistar salvaged the truck and engine division(s) from the bankruptcy sale.

And today there are plenty of engines available for the 1/2-ton market- almost every SUV on the world market has a diesel option, from Jeep to Mercedes, Land Rover and BMW. Remember last summer with GM's chief of finance was saying, "Gas prices have no effect on auto sales"? I think the US manufactures are simply slow to respond. And in this case, it appears that someone like Nissan may beat them to a market (light - light truck diesel) that GM and Ford should own!

-Mike

 

I will concede that for heavy use, the 6.2/6.5 was not up to it, but they could be a decent motor for general light duty use. My sister beat one up for several years in her 1 ton, and it's issues were more due to poor operator habits and maintanence than enything... like driving on after the top rad hose blew, tends to crack heads no matter the engine.... But it was under powered for use hauling her horse trailer. I am hearing reports that more recently people are figuring out how to fix the problems of both the 5.7 and 6.2 and getting reliability and power from them, but now too late. I have heard time and again how the 6.2's would pull 20 mpg on Suburbans, my sister would get 15 in her one ton with a 4 speed trans and steel flatbed, it just wasn't quite strong enough to do what she needed. My dad's 84 Ford with the 6.9 was always a pooch with poor mileage, got 12 on a good day with 3.54 gears, but I hear reports on FTE regularly that others are getting around 20 mpg with the same setup. (It did gain power after the factory set pump was replaced, but still was a pooch by comparison to most others on the road) My 86 can't seem to get past 12 mpg, but it will pull quite well. If I hadn't known other 6.9's that did pull well, I would have thought the same about them based on my experience with my father's Ford. It has had to be worked on regularly as well, but it also gets poor maintenance. The 6.9's didn't exactly make a great impression back then either, but are also a good motor if a few basic mods are done to wake them up. Some of the image problem also came from the expectation of the public to be able to drive those diesels like they did their gas cars, which they couldn't deliver on, even the European diesels were dogs back then, only in more recent times have the diesels started responding good enough to get the average public interested again. There is more to the public not liking diesels in their vehicles than a bad rep of one engine. It added to it, but isn't the only reason.

On the statement of gas prices having noe effect on sales, I can't understand how someone who supposedly is paying attention to the public in rgards to buying behavior and such could be so blind to the truth... fuel prices have everything to do with sales, and they don't see that the SUV market is hurting for that reason. Fuel prices aren't likely to go down any time soon, and the SUV market is going to shrink for that reason. No different than the 70's in that regard, fuel economy is agian becoming a part of the decision if what vehicle to purchase.

 

whens this thing suppose to come out? My dad needs a new truck.

 

Yeah, I see an awful llot of H2 on the used car lots and parked in driveways. GM developed the hunk of steel while toyota had already produced the 2nd gen prius. Talk about listening to the market. Check the NYSE.

 

If you do see a diesel F150 - expect to have the 4.4l diesel Ford V8 under the hood.

 

Doubt it. That engine is far from TierII standards.

-Mike

 

<<reply sent to wrong forum - post moved. Mike>>