Reflash=de-tuning?
More Turbo
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 695
Likes: 2
From: arizona
poor engineering
Originally Posted by 112233
as for the dyno issue, an appointment has been made in toronto in 2 weeks, on the 22 nd and the 23 to have all 3 of our f350 cc trucks dyno`d. we have been having grave power issues with both dualleys since the recall/re-flash. dealer acknowldeges some units exhibit horse power and TORQUE losses after the re-program. they (dealer)
have been bending over backwards to help us on this and other issues, but the area service reps, and the main techs from oakville ont. have been just a wee bit on the stubborn side on the power loss issue. they claim.. nada, can`t-won`t happen!!! and they have yet!!!?????? to recieve ANY complaints from customers or dealer techs on this issue.
since this re-flash restricts timing and turbo boost, affects the over-all performance ...on some??? vehicles..(ours) as the first step to a buy back on all 3!! we must have the dyno done. i will report the findings here for those who wish to view.
as an end user, CUSTOMER who purchased these vehicles with hard earned after tax dollars, expecting the hp/torque that was advertised and is printed in the brochures,
the thought of loosing 20% or more of that power upsets me. As a side note, we were ticked pink with all of these trucks when we bought them. They would do one hell`of a hole shot!!! daddy thought he has a few new toys.
ford has stated they are entitled to make periodic software changes to the pcm to corrct known issues, and that the advertised numbers of hp/torque are only GENERAL guide lines. (averages). if these updates effect operation of the vehicle and are deemed detrimental, (mass complaints) they MIGHT?? re-addrees those issues independently.
this recall for egbp valve and a re-flash of the pcm has created some issues. we have them and a few others. we trust ford will come through and issue another fe-flash to reurn the lost power that all 6.0 owners paid for and expect!!! still think we have a good set of trucks here. just want to put this issue to rest. i know ford wants it to go away! but I won`t!!
all 3 of these trucks have less than 7 thousand miles on them. f350 cc lariats, 2 are duallys, never a programmer, or mods of any type. all 3 have had turbo`s,egr`s,both duallys have had trannys replaced.
have been bending over backwards to help us on this and other issues, but the area service reps, and the main techs from oakville ont. have been just a wee bit on the stubborn side on the power loss issue. they claim.. nada, can`t-won`t happen!!! and they have yet!!!?????? to recieve ANY complaints from customers or dealer techs on this issue.
since this re-flash restricts timing and turbo boost, affects the over-all performance ...on some??? vehicles..(ours) as the first step to a buy back on all 3!! we must have the dyno done. i will report the findings here for those who wish to view.
as an end user, CUSTOMER who purchased these vehicles with hard earned after tax dollars, expecting the hp/torque that was advertised and is printed in the brochures,
the thought of loosing 20% or more of that power upsets me. As a side note, we were ticked pink with all of these trucks when we bought them. They would do one hell`of a hole shot!!! daddy thought he has a few new toys.
ford has stated they are entitled to make periodic software changes to the pcm to corrct known issues, and that the advertised numbers of hp/torque are only GENERAL guide lines. (averages). if these updates effect operation of the vehicle and are deemed detrimental, (mass complaints) they MIGHT?? re-addrees those issues independently.
this recall for egbp valve and a re-flash of the pcm has created some issues. we have them and a few others. we trust ford will come through and issue another fe-flash to reurn the lost power that all 6.0 owners paid for and expect!!! still think we have a good set of trucks here. just want to put this issue to rest. i know ford wants it to go away! but I won`t!!
all 3 of these trucks have less than 7 thousand miles on them. f350 cc lariats, 2 are duallys, never a programmer, or mods of any type. all 3 have had turbo`s,egr`s,both duallys have had trannys replaced.
ok.. I dont want anyone to think because of a lot of my threads that i am trying to start trouble about ford on a ford web site....that being said i have been a ford guy my whole life, mustangs..trucks,heck i just bought a ford five hundred (05) 2 weeks ago !. but i gota say this is wrong. i have been trying not to mod my truck but have to do so to keep the power the truck came with. please PM me about your DYNO,and any people that you talk with on fords end that come up with anything about these reflash's. i just got my 03 back from the dealer and it is running good but is pulling less . i too will dyno when i get a chance too. there is no way you other people can tell me that there not DE-Tunning the trucks. I understand why, but that does not make it right to take HP from you to make up for there poor engineering ! If microsoft sent out a update that made your computer run slower, but they did it because there windows keeps crashing and this would help, I would say the same, poor programming ! I love my truck, but have to say i dont think i will ever buy another 6L diesel. I would also like you data with names if you can so next time i am at my dealer and he tells me that the reflash do not take power away i can show him he is wrong, because that is basicly what he is telling me ,but you dealer said that it does ? wright ?
I also lost 2 mpg after the last flash, and you say you have been through 2 transmissions and a EGR and turbo.. on a 05 ford, man thats a lot! !
i would be looks at lemon law that that point !!!
good luck and please keep us posted, P.S. dont talk about taking legal actions agaist ford or they will just remove you post/threads. and would not want to lose's this thread as i would like to see and talk with others that are having this problem.
Last edited by chadjones99; Mar 5, 2006 at 11:06 PM.
More Turbo
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 695
Likes: 2
From: arizona
stock sensor vs machanical
talked with EDGE today(email) and I should have programmer back this week so I will give you an update on my boost levels , also I order a mechanical boost gauge so I can see what it really is and compare the edge unit which use's the stock sensor for data, so that could also be off.
Senior User
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 426
Likes: 1
Seems to me that if you look at your boost gauge and it always/since day 1 has read say.....30psi at WOT, and then after the truck comes back from a flash your boost never goes above say.....25psi I'd say you don't need a dyno to confirm your "seat of the pants" loss of power sensation. Boost is power, if you get your truck back and nothing else was done other than a flash and it absolutely positively now makes less boost, that's all I need to know.
I'm the 1st guy to say chips are dangerous and I will never use one again after my Dodge expeience with an Edge chip however, I have to feel for the guy that has been satisfied with his truck's performance until a negative reflash and now feels he has to buy a chip to get back what he lost. Anyone that tows a big trailer up big long grades i.e. like out West can EASILY tell if their truck is not performing as it used to.
I'm the 1st guy to say chips are dangerous and I will never use one again after my Dodge expeience with an Edge chip however, I have to feel for the guy that has been satisfied with his truck's performance until a negative reflash and now feels he has to buy a chip to get back what he lost. Anyone that tows a big trailer up big long grades i.e. like out West can EASILY tell if their truck is not performing as it used to.
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
I just got reflash I cant tell a difference yet. Sometimes boost only goes to 24ish and sometimes to 29ish on stock gauge. I will update on MPG since i will be driving from tucson to los angeles this weekend and back.
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
well seems everything is the same. Possibly slightly higher MPG. I got 14.06 on the way home from Cali. on one tank but the rest were at 12.5 ish. Although it was the first time i have seen 14 MPG since ford reflashed the first time.
More Turbo
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 695
Likes: 2
From: arizona
flash does not like edge ?
i tryed to test my edge on my father inlaw 04 f350 to make sure it was my truck or the edge, and could not get it to work oh his truck ether.they(edge) emailed me and said they would get with me to find out whats going on, i just got it from them last week and they updated it and they said they tested it, but it will not work on my ford or my father inlaws, i was think it had something to do with my truck just being flashed, but my father inlaws truck has not been to the dealer in 5 or 6 months
but my mpg is down since last flash i use to get 21 @ 70 mph (no load)
now its 18-19 at best. my in town mpg is around 13-14
i will have a mechanical boost gauge by this coming weekend and be able to see if my boost has drop since last flash i was getting 29 lbs , but that was read from the edge unit, and now my data stream does not work anymore on the edge.
but my mpg is down since last flash i use to get 21 @ 70 mph (no load)
now its 18-19 at best. my in town mpg is around 13-14
i will have a mechanical boost gauge by this coming weekend and be able to see if my boost has drop since last flash i was getting 29 lbs , but that was read from the edge unit, and now my data stream does not work anymore on the edge.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 648
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by chadjones99
I would rather have a slightly weaker motor, and have it last a long time than to have a strong one that only last alittle while , then have it up to me to fix it or spend the money to get it fixed !
if they need to drop a few HP to make it last then so be it. I have mixed feelings about it
Take Care
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More Turbo
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 695
Likes: 2
From: arizona
no data stream
Originally Posted by Btravelen
And your quandry is that your Edge doesn't work anymore?
Take Care
Take Care
and still would like to know if that is what they are doing. I know there is a power loss thing going on, the question is it being done for the reason we have talked about here.
and i paid a lot of money for my edge, so if i use it or not , is not the point the point is i cant use it.
More Turbo
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 695
Likes: 2
From: arizona
talked with edge
ok sent edge unit back again the guy said that the error # i got was a new one , meaning that they have to make a new file, because fords newest flash is not in there system, and that when they flashed it last week they think they gave me a old flash.
anyway i got my boost gauge installed and i am hitting 24 lbs with no problem and 27 peaks. now edge also say's yes the last flash there have been data stream problems and that should be fixed. so if and when i get it back i will compare the readings on boost from the edge to see if they match my gauge. then i will know if i lost boost on the last ford flash.(being the edge use's the trucks sensor for readings they might be off)
anyway i got my boost gauge installed and i am hitting 24 lbs with no problem and 27 peaks. now edge also say's yes the last flash there have been data stream problems and that should be fixed. so if and when i get it back i will compare the readings on boost from the edge to see if they match my gauge. then i will know if i lost boost on the last ford flash.(being the edge use's the trucks sensor for readings they might be off)
More Turbo
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 695
Likes: 2
From: arizona
extended warranty
Originally Posted by TVJERRY
I Had A Head Gasket To Blow And A Reflash, Now I Have Lost The Truck I Bought. I Bought A Truck That Had Super Preformance Now I Have A Slug! I'm Just Thinking About Changing Brands.
More Turbo
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 695
Likes: 2
From: arizona
maybe there not detuning
I have stock tune on my 03 PSD. i have now added a mechanical boost gauge.
it has been reading 24-25 lbs of boost and when i hold it down, it will go up to 27 ish, well while getting on to the freeway today running pretty hard, doing 80 i hammered down and it slammed the gauge to 33 lbs, i let off and hit it again and it did it again. , tried later that day at same speed and boost held at 5 lbs and then slowly climb to 24 ish. i am think that at that time my egr was getting in the way.
it has been reading 24-25 lbs of boost and when i hold it down, it will go up to 27 ish, well while getting on to the freeway today running pretty hard, doing 80 i hammered down and it slammed the gauge to 33 lbs, i let off and hit it again and it did it again. , tried later that day at same speed and boost held at 5 lbs and then slowly climb to 24 ish. i am think that at that time my egr was getting in the way.
New User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Warren, Oh
I have a 05 psd and I'm not sure about this reflash. I didn't notice any performance difference except the idle when cold. Then 500 mile later all hell broke loose. At 7,500 blew rear main & oil sending unit, then at 8,000 cracked head. Ford said this has been happening. Anyone else hear this?