cop pullover bs or not??
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,241
Likes: 3
From: Other side of the sunrise
You know, when you consider what people are travelling down the road at that time in the morning..... Yes it's true that someone working nights bla bla. But what are the percentages of bad guys out there at that time of night. I would guess quite high. Wouldn't that be enough for any reasonable cop to focus on a driver and look for some other indicator to alert him/her of something shady, ie. up all night on a bindge, amphetamines, scoping houses to rob etc??? Maybe a quick look the other way by the driver was enough for him to take a look at the plate tags or consider 5 mph descrepancy.
Just trying to consider what might be going through a police officer's mind at that time in the AM.
Just trying to consider what might be going through a police officer's mind at that time in the AM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
Originally Posted by olfordsnstone
You know, when you consider what people are travelling down the road at that time in the morning..... Yes it's true that someone working nights bla bla. But what are the percentages of bad guys out there at that time of night. I would guess quite high. Wouldn't that be enough for any reasonable cop to focus on a driver and look for some other indicator to alert him/her of something shady, ie. up all night on a bindge, amphetamines, scoping houses to rob etc??? Maybe a quick look the other way was enough for him to take a look at the plate tags or consider 5 mph descrepancy.
Just trying to consider what might be going through a police officer's mind at that time in the AM.
Just trying to consider what might be going through a police officer's mind at that time in the AM.
Ryan, you hit the nail on the head - let's set up checkpoints every few miles and everyone can stop there, have their vehicle searched, submit to a body cavity search, and have your wife & kids interrogated. That way, if anyone is breaking the law, we're sure to find out about it. Think of how safe the streets would be!
Of course, I'm exaggerating for effect - but where do you draw the line?
And whoever quoted J. Q. Adams, does that mean that we should throw out our current form of government? I think most would agree that our country is not moral or religious anymore.
Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,646
Likes: 1
From: Milky Way Galaxy
Andy- I don't disagree with your stance. I fully agree that law enforcement is given waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much leeway. But, as I stated in my earlier post, this particular incident isn't an example of the government eroding our civil rights or abusing authority. There are many legitimate examples of that occurring. We need to choose our battles wisely and fairly. If a reasonable person, taking an objective look, can see why a cop would pull someone over, such as under these circumstances, then the cops are doing what we pay them to do. We can't just say that if a person's pulled over and no citation is issued, well then it must just be harassment.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by andym
Speeding? According to the original poster, he was doing 45 in a 40.
Originally Posted by andym
Besides, when the cop pulled him over, he didn't say anything about speed, just about the sticker.
Originally Posted by andym
Two things follow that:
- Since the cop didn't give him a ticket, he knows it wouldn't have held up in court and didn't want to waste his time. He got what he wanted - the guy on the side of the road and the cop with his nose close enough to smell booze.
- Since the cop didn't give him a ticket, he knows it wouldn't have held up in court and didn't want to waste his time. He got what he wanted - the guy on the side of the road and the cop with his nose close enough to smell booze.
Originally Posted by andym
- The original poster said that he passed the cop in the other direction, and the cop didn't have his lights on - how did he see the registration sticker? That would have been my question for him, and I bet he wouldn't have a decent answer, cause there really isn't one.
Originally Posted by andym
Also, can you explain to what extent you are willing to allow your civil rights to be violated? How do you determine what's ok and what's not ok? It seems that a bonafide police beating is not ok, but getting pulled over for BS reasons is ok? Or are you saying that the pullover was completely justified?
Originally Posted by andym
I covered this above, but let me address it directly to you - the question is irrelevant. The cop couldn't have seen the sticker until AFTER he made the u-turn and pulled up behind the guy. At that point, he knew he wanted to pull him over, and he just needed ANY excuse to do so. Sticker partially obscured? Good enough!
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,241
Likes: 3
From: Other side of the sunrise
Originally Posted by andym
Ryan, you hit the nail on the head - let's set up checkpoints every few miles and everyone can stop there, have their vehicle searched, submit to a body cavity search, and have your wife & kids interrogated. That way, if anyone is breaking the law, we're sure to find out about it. Think of how safe the streets would be!
Of course, I'm exaggerating for effect - but where do you draw the line?
Okay, sorry 'bout that, I couldn't resist.Don't feel bad, I cant keep up with this thread either. Specially on dialup.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 963
Likes: 1
From: wichita kansas
I know that some cops have to find some reason to pull a person over, but I would rather it be somewhat legimate when they do. Some cops do have a attitude that they can do no wrong and given the freedom to pull over at will can abuse their authority too easily. Saying that it may get the drunk driver off the road is still a stretch. Expand that out and they could pull anybody over or raid your house just because they think you could possibly, maybe have drugs or something. I would like to see the cops held accountable for their actions myself. I work 3rd shift and many times I have seen them speeding without warning lights on. Now I know they weren't after a bad guy because they stop at the stop lights or go pull into a quick trip and certainly weren't hurrying in. With them speeding it is hard to gauge that they are at night and when you want to make a lane change or pull out from on a side street it can almost cause a accident.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,402
Likes: 38
From: Bonita Springs FL
Originally Posted by War_is_my_Shepherd
Yep, that's speeding.
Originally Posted by War_is_my_Shepherd
This is obvioulsy pure assumption on your part. Are you secure enough to admit that?
Yes, it's an asusmption, but a pretty reasonable one. We're working on a lot of assumptions in this debate.
Originally Posted by War_is_my_Shepherd
I assumed he meant his red and blue overhead lights. But you thought he meant his headlights...okay. We could argue the lighting conditions all day and it still means little. The cop said he saw the decal was obscured.
Originally Posted by War_is_my_Shepherd
Here is the impass. You don't think probable cause existed for making the traffic stop. I think it did. Your chain of logic concludes with a violation of your rights. My chain of logic ends with a lawful traffic stop.
Originally Posted by War_is_my_Shepherd
No, no, no. That's really the ONLY relevant question. Because everything else depends on the lawfulness of the the traffic stop. You emphasize "AFTER he made a u-turn". So what? Are you saying that the cop making a u-turn to look at a vehicle is illegal or something? A cop does not need probable cause to do a u-turn. You're right about one thing, the sticker partially obscured is good enough, it's solid probable cause, no ifs ands or buts. If you don't think the sticker violation should be probable cause then petition your state legislature. Until then, makes sure your sticker isn't obscured.
Here's the sequence of events as I see them happening:
- Guy drives by a cop going the opposite way late at night, very few cars on the road.
- Cop sees him, figures there's a good chance he can get him on something - DUI, expired tags, busted taillight, etc. but he knows he needs a valid reason to pull him over.
- Cop flips a U and pulls up behind driver.
- Sees the "partially obscured tag" and pulls the driver over, hoping for the DUI.
- Sends the driver on his way when he can find nothing to cite him for.
It's a pretty weak reason to pull a vehicle over. He was pulled over for being on the road late at night, not because of his sticker - the reality of that should be obvious. You an argue technicalities all day, but the intention is clear.
I'd like the OP to post a picture of his "partially obscured sticker".
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Brett Foote
Fleet Owner
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Blue Hill Township
I haven't read more than the first page of this thread, but I think that everyone is forgetting that the OP was speeding. The cop could have just pulled him over for that too.
I think its funny when people complain about getting pulled over for 4 or 5 miles over the limit. They are still exceeding the speed limit yet they complain about getting pulled over for it. Too bad, so sad.
I think its funny when people complain about getting pulled over for 4 or 5 miles over the limit. They are still exceeding the speed limit yet they complain about getting pulled over for it. Too bad, so sad.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
i will say that i have been pulled over for muiltitude of reasons that seem odd but i have only been ticketed once for driving alone in the HOV 3 lane. People need to understand that if a cop goes out of the way to pull you over they should alteast be satisfied with the fact that they are doing there job. Most of all cops are more willing to let you off the line if your just co-op with them. I spent 30 mins while a cop serched my truck when i swerved when my drink spilled. The cop didn't think i was drunk but i let him search the truck and told him about any knifes are tools i had in the car( if they ask let them know i had a friend aressted when they found i ice pick in his car). other times i got off from speeding by just making friends, exsplainning everything in the truck. The cop even pointed out that that my truck was too load but issisted his was louder, then went on to ask about my stereo system. So just let it go they might have missed this time but next time they coul remove the drunk driver who could destroy you r new f-250 or the thief that might steal your banging stereo.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,221
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by MisterCMK
I haven't read more than the first page of this thread, but I think that everyone is forgetting that the OP was speeding. The cop could have just pulled him over for that too.
I think its funny when people complain about getting pulled over for 4 or 5 miles over the limit. They are still exceeding the speed limit yet they complain about getting pulled over for it. Too bad, so sad.
I think its funny when people complain about getting pulled over for 4 or 5 miles over the limit. They are still exceeding the speed limit yet they complain about getting pulled over for it. Too bad, so sad.
I piped up a little in the thread to respond to those posting more along the lines of they don't care what is done as long as it's for the good of the people.... and we go from there.
Glad this thread stayed as a good and calm discussion. 
Hotshot
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,170
Likes: 5
From: The hills of No. Calif.
Yes, I'm impressed with that as well. I was waiting for things to get out of hand, but you guys have done a good job of keeping things in check here. Other than a few minor language infractions, it's been pretty well within the guidelines. Some very interesting and thought-provoking posts going on here. 
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 657
Likes: 0
From: brimfield township,OH
Last time I talked to my buddy who was a test driver for GM,he said a speedo was allowed to be off by 5mph.Pulling you over for that is lame.I don't think you should getpulled over in less you are doing something wrong,drinking or not.I've seen people drinking that drive alot better than someone on a cell phone.I also don't think dui checkpoints should be allowed.Let them go out and catch the bad guys.Some people like to wear blinders.My cousin was killed a few years back.He got tboned by someone on a cell phone.Nothing as far as I know happened to her,but I'm sure there would have been a big stink if she were drunk.OH,passed a sherriff's deputy taking radar in broad daylight back around Christmas.He was tipping a whole fifth of jack daniels.I guess they're allowed.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
From: Tillsonburg ON
Hey sorry to butt in here guys, but as a Canadian, can you explain something to me? Do you not allow "check-stops" in the USA? This is where the cops set up a bunch of cars and officers and stop every single vehicle? Around Christmas they do them for DUI and at other times of the year, they are checking for valid paperwork or sometimes game checks where they also have game wardens present and mostly they stop pickups and/or larger vehicles that have the possibility of concealing game taken without a permit? Theoretically there's no "probable cause" for these types of stops.