IHC Blue CPS junk?
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That's funny. Navistar has been trying to do away with paying for diagnostics time for cam sensor issues with the 466E because it is such a common problem. The dealership I work at is in the top 5 for warranty claims for International. (2nd last year) We have the numbers that many other IH dealer could only dream of. Never tell them what the application is (in this case), as you found out they will just break your chops, after all it is the incorrect part for the application. If it is a ok part to use then don't you think navistar would have just used one sensor and saved money on the inventory and R&D. The black sensor has been installed on some DT 466 only on an as needed basis per the engine group. Typically sysptoms were cmp signal noise when all else is in spec with a new sensor.
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Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: New Hampshire
Originally Posted by blown99
That's funny. Navistar has been trying to do away with paying for diagnostics time for cam sensor issues with the 466E because it is such a common problem. The dealership I work at is in the top 5 for warranty claims for International. (2nd last year) We have the numbers that many other IH dealer could only dream of. Never tell them what the application is (in this case), as you found out they will just break your chops, after all it is the incorrect part for the application. If it is a ok part to use then don't you think navistar would have just used one sensor and saved money on the inventory and R&D. The black sensor has been installed on some DT 466 only on an as needed basis per the engine group. Typically sysptoms were cmp signal noise when all else is in spec with a new sensor.
stupid impolite behaviour.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 297
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From: Mi, Middle of the Mitten
Originally Posted by blown99
That's funny. Navistar has been trying to do away with paying for diagnostics time for cam sensor issues with the 466E because it is such a common problem. The dealership I work at is in the top 5 for warranty claims for International. (2nd last year) We have the numbers that many other IH dealer could only dream of. Never tell them what the application is (in this case), as you found out they will just break your chops, after all it is the incorrect part for the application. If it is a ok part to use then don't you think navistar would have just used one sensor and saved money on the inventory and R&D. The black sensor has been installed on some DT 466 only on an as needed basis per the engine group. Typically sysptoms were cmp signal noise when all else is in spec with a new sensor.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Mi, Middle of the Mitten
Originally Posted by Craven
Nut
I posted this question at another site. Blue IH CPS failure
After close to 250 hits there is only one person that reported a failure and his broke soon after he installed also, 3weeks. I believe you and the other person may have received a bad or weak sensor to start with and it is not a common problem.
Craven
I posted this question at another site. Blue IH CPS failure
After close to 250 hits there is only one person that reported a failure and his broke soon after he installed also, 3weeks. I believe you and the other person may have received a bad or weak sensor to start with and it is not a common problem.
Craven
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From: Maine
posted by Blown99
You guys should at least check the air gap on your cam sensors. .025 - .030 is the spec. There are two different size/length sensors so be sure you install teh correct length sensor. After working at international for 10 yrs I've replaced many many blue sensors in the DT and a fraction of them have been the black sensors from the T444E. We used to put the black ones in some DT's that had continuous problems with cmp noise.
posted by Craven
read on another site from someone that said by the way IH numbers run, that the IH part #1807339C93 (black) is an update of the #1807339C92 (blue) for the DT466E. C93 newer than C92. Is this the way IH parts work?
I am again confused as to which part # to order. The counter guy at IH said yesterday that the DT466E was black. Is this the updated replacement for 'old' Blue now or is it the " wrong" Black one described above by Blown99? I will hold off buying till I get a definative answer from someone that knows the real answer. Can you chime in Blown99? Do you recommend leaving the original 7.3 one in?
And what is the best tool to get in the cps hole to measure the air gap? This to me seems extremly important. Does this air gap change the performance of the transmitter based on the stronger or weaker draw of the magnetic pick up? If this is the case the magnet being too far or too close to the cam wheel would vary efficiency. Am I on or off base here?
You guys should at least check the air gap on your cam sensors. .025 - .030 is the spec. There are two different size/length sensors so be sure you install teh correct length sensor. After working at international for 10 yrs I've replaced many many blue sensors in the DT and a fraction of them have been the black sensors from the T444E. We used to put the black ones in some DT's that had continuous problems with cmp noise.
posted by Craven
read on another site from someone that said by the way IH numbers run, that the IH part #1807339C93 (black) is an update of the #1807339C92 (blue) for the DT466E. C93 newer than C92. Is this the way IH parts work?
I am again confused as to which part # to order. The counter guy at IH said yesterday that the DT466E was black. Is this the updated replacement for 'old' Blue now or is it the " wrong" Black one described above by Blown99? I will hold off buying till I get a definative answer from someone that knows the real answer. Can you chime in Blown99? Do you recommend leaving the original 7.3 one in?
And what is the best tool to get in the cps hole to measure the air gap? This to me seems extremly important. Does this air gap change the performance of the transmitter based on the stronger or weaker draw of the magnetic pick up? If this is the case the magnet being too far or too close to the cam wheel would vary efficiency. Am I on or off base here?
Last edited by cnd999; Jan 28, 2006 at 09:08 AM.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Mi, Middle of the Mitten
Originally Posted by cnd999
posted by Blown99
You guys should at least check the air gap on your cam sensors. .025 - .030 is the spec. There are two different size/length sensors so be sure you install teh correct length sensor. After working at international for 10 yrs I've replaced many many blue sensors in the DT and a fraction of them have been the black sensors from the T444E. We used to put the black ones in some DT's that had continuous problems with cmp noise.
posted by Craven
read on another site from someone that said by the way IH numbers run, that the IH part #1807339C93 (black) is an update of the #1807339C92 (blue) for the DT466E. C93 newer than C92. Is this the way IH parts work?
I am again confused as to which part # to order. The counter guy at IH said yesterday that the DT466E was black. Is this the updated replacement for 'old' Blue now or is it the " wrong" Black one described above by Blown99? I will hold off buying till I get a definative answer from someone that knows the real answer. Can you chime in Blown99? Do you recommend leaving the original 7.3 one in?
And what is the best tool to get in the cps hole to measure the air gap? This to me seems extremly important. Does this air gap change the performance of the transmitter based on the stronger or weaker draw of the magnetic pick up? If this is the case the magnet being too far or too close to the cam wheel would vary efficiency. Am I on or off base here?
You guys should at least check the air gap on your cam sensors. .025 - .030 is the spec. There are two different size/length sensors so be sure you install teh correct length sensor. After working at international for 10 yrs I've replaced many many blue sensors in the DT and a fraction of them have been the black sensors from the T444E. We used to put the black ones in some DT's that had continuous problems with cmp noise.
posted by Craven
read on another site from someone that said by the way IH numbers run, that the IH part #1807339C93 (black) is an update of the #1807339C92 (blue) for the DT466E. C93 newer than C92. Is this the way IH parts work?
I am again confused as to which part # to order. The counter guy at IH said yesterday that the DT466E was black. Is this the updated replacement for 'old' Blue now or is it the " wrong" Black one described above by Blown99? I will hold off buying till I get a definative answer from someone that knows the real answer. Can you chime in Blown99? Do you recommend leaving the original 7.3 one in?
And what is the best tool to get in the cps hole to measure the air gap? This to me seems extremly important. Does this air gap change the performance of the transmitter based on the stronger or weaker draw of the magnetic pick up? If this is the case the magnet being too far or too close to the cam wheel would vary efficiency. Am I on or off base here?
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 17,988
Likes: 207
From: La La Land
Blown99,
Does your shop ever get requests from Ford pickup drivers to use their CPS depth tool on their engines to help resolve a CPS gap issue?
If so, approximate rates and time.
I'm thinking this might be a wise investment in reliability.
Pop
Does your shop ever get requests from Ford pickup drivers to use their CPS depth tool on their engines to help resolve a CPS gap issue?
If so, approximate rates and time.
I'm thinking this might be a wise investment in reliability.
Pop
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1807339C92 is the blue cam sensor that was used and still is used in the 466E. Just for ha ha's here are the CURRENT part #'s for the different serial # lines for the T444E 182172C99, 1825899C93 (this last ones covers two latest serial lines). There part #'s change often. A C92 is older than the C93 etc.etc.
Not all international dealer will work on the ford pickups. Ours does, sometimes, only for good customers, and when ford dealer can't figure out a problem they send them over to me. I can't see why they wouldn't check the air gap for you. It is very easy with the tool they have. I would say an honest dealer would get you for a half hour labor, and the others no more than one hour labor. If you request a new cam sensor add in the cost of the sensor.
If the air gap is to large they may try to sell you a new front cover which is not needed. Tell them to use a 3M cookie wheel and grind down the cover to get the air gap in spec. The cover is aluminum and grinds down very easy with the cookie wheel.
If the runout of the pickup wheel is excessive, then the front cover needs to come off and a new wheel installed.
If the cam end play is excessive then a new cam and gear is needed. Sometimes you can get away with removing the gear and resweating back onto the cam.
A ford dealer should also be able to perform this task, as it is the correct way to install the part.
Not all international dealer will work on the ford pickups. Ours does, sometimes, only for good customers, and when ford dealer can't figure out a problem they send them over to me. I can't see why they wouldn't check the air gap for you. It is very easy with the tool they have. I would say an honest dealer would get you for a half hour labor, and the others no more than one hour labor. If you request a new cam sensor add in the cost of the sensor.
If the air gap is to large they may try to sell you a new front cover which is not needed. Tell them to use a 3M cookie wheel and grind down the cover to get the air gap in spec. The cover is aluminum and grinds down very easy with the cookie wheel.
If the runout of the pickup wheel is excessive, then the front cover needs to come off and a new wheel installed.
If the cam end play is excessive then a new cam and gear is needed. Sometimes you can get away with removing the gear and resweating back onto the cam.
A ford dealer should also be able to perform this task, as it is the correct way to install the part.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 17,988
Likes: 207
From: La La Land
Blown,
Wouldn't we be better to grind material off the sensor's bracket? It seems that grinding the face of the cover might allow grindings to get into the timing gears. Do you use some kind of cork in the CPS hole?
And, oh yeah, I'm SURE the Ford techs use the right tool to measure the CPS gap EVERY time they do this job.
Yeah...... Sure......
I'd trust International before Ford, thanks.
Pop
Wouldn't we be better to grind material off the sensor's bracket? It seems that grinding the face of the cover might allow grindings to get into the timing gears. Do you use some kind of cork in the CPS hole?
And, oh yeah, I'm SURE the Ford techs use the right tool to measure the CPS gap EVERY time they do this job.
Yeah...... Sure......
I'd trust International before Ford, thanks.
Pop
Last edited by SpringerPop; Jan 28, 2006 at 06:55 PM.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 370
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From: Maine
Does this air gap change the performance of the transmitter based on the stronger or weaker draw of the magnetic pick up? If this is the case the magnet being too far or too close to the cam wheel would vary the amount of draw the mag has thus changing the efficiency. Am I on or off base here? Just trying to learn. Thanks
Sorry to beat a dead horse, (and where did that pleasant saying come from) but I am really interested in learning about how the Hall effect works in our cps. And who was or is Hall.
Sorry to beat a dead horse, (and where did that pleasant saying come from) but I am really interested in learning about how the Hall effect works in our cps. And who was or is Hall.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Originally Posted by cnd999
Does this air gap change the performance of the transmitter based on the stronger or weaker draw of the magnetic pick up? If this is the case the magnet being too far or too close to the cam wheel would vary the amount of draw the mag has thus changing the efficiency. Am I on or off base here? Just trying to learn. Thanks
Sorry to beat a dead horse, (and where did that pleasant saying come from) but I am really interested in learning about how the Hall effect works in our cps. And who was or is Hall.
Sorry to beat a dead horse, (and where did that pleasant saying come from) but I am really interested in learning about how the Hall effect works in our cps. And who was or is Hall.
http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/hall.html
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The metal bracket that holds the sensor is on the outside of the sensor and wouldn't affect the depth of the sensor. I have tried sanding/grinding down the plastic lip of the sensor (where it bottoms out on the front cover) It was much harder to do and wasn't as accurate/neat of a job. Also when the cam sensor that you ground down fails you will have to do the job all over again. Once the front cover is ground down it should be good for life.
A sensor that is located to far away from the pick up wheel can cause stalling code could be loss of cmp signal, CEL with a code of cmp signal noise detected. The disadvantage of running a sensor with to little clearance is the possibility of the sensor hitting the pickup wheel. This is characterized by lines/rub marks going across the face of the sensor.
A sensor that is located to far away from the pick up wheel can cause stalling code could be loss of cmp signal, CEL with a code of cmp signal noise detected. The disadvantage of running a sensor with to little clearance is the possibility of the sensor hitting the pickup wheel. This is characterized by lines/rub marks going across the face of the sensor.