I have been on this site only for a little whil when I said I had a 1980 F100 with the 302. I was wrong about the 302, and found out that I actually have the 351w. I have not been around V8's enough so I made a stupid newbie mistake.

Anyways, I have some new ideas on some minor modifications and I was wanting to know your input.

Intake manifold: Edelbrock Air-gap $277
Heads: Edelbrock Perfomer series $539
Carb: Holley Street Avenger 670cfm $369
Ignition: MSD Standard Pro-Billet $272, MSD 6AL $229 Blaster 2 $34
Exhaust: Dual with crossover and 40 series Flowmater mufflers $ not sure but $70 per muffler

Headers, I need help with this please. it looks like there will be little space for headers, so I am not sure if I am looking for shorties or full length. I also might be looking at a cam swap, but I need some help there too.

Whate are your thoughts? I think this will be a pretty basic setup, that should give me some good usefull power for the street and for towing. But I am new to the whole V8 scene sad to say. But I learn quick so let me in on the secrets. What kind of power do you think I will get out of this build with the listed mods?

Thanks for your thoughts and comments.

 

Thats a fancy list you got there. Is that $539 per head, or for the pair? Also curious what tipped you off that it's a 351.

 

I think you sould revisit your combo...and air gap manifold????? How about a dual plane, something like a Weiand Street Action, Edelbrock Performer, etc. Looks to me like you are building a high RPM engine, which will suck for towing, normal driving. The best engine I ever built was when I matched up my intended usage, and found items that fit the rev range that I operate in 80% of the time. Here is what I did in an 82 Mustang, would make a decent pickup engine, maybe a little too much RPM so a downgrade on the cam would be beneficial:

Top to bottom:

Honed out Holley 600 (you might want an Edelbrock or Carter for off-road)
Weiand Street Action
Stock Head, ported, 1.94/1.60 SS intake and exhaust valves (Manley)
Dual valve springs, 10 degree keepers and retainers (Crower)
aluminum roller rockers (roller tips and pivots), Crane
1 5/8 headers, 2.5 inch dual exhaust with crossover and a good street turbo type muffler (MAC)
Flat top forged TRW pistons, with hand filed Moly ring set
Polished rods with aftermarket bolts
Assembly balanced by a quality shop!
Crower 280 HDP camshaft for a 351w (kept the 302 HO firing order).
Double roller timing chain, camshaft degreed in
Stock Duraspark ignition, slight recurve and working correctly
I always use Clevite 77 bearings...period!

This is a 302, roughly 320 horsepower, and lights off quick! Throttle response is EFI like, and it revs out over 6500 rpms if you like.

Aftermarket heads would be much easier, and would probably make more power, but at the time they were very expensive. Don't get a race head, get the more street oriented heads, you will have a much better driver in the end.

If it is an automatic, don't, whatever you do, don't overcam it. It will be a dog no matter what else it has.

Call your cam manufacturer of choice (Crower is mine), and give them your stats, they will size the best cam for your application. You will need, engine, mods, tranny, gear ratio, tire size, 2 or 4 wd.

Kenny

 

That was the price for the pair. Not a bad price at all.
I am looking for low end and mid range, so tell me what does not match up. Summit and the like don't tell you much about what each part does for what range. I think the Street Avenger will still be a good carb, and I like my ignition. Can't go wrong there. But with the intake manifold, and the heads what would be your thoughts. And what about a header setup? Also what profile cam should I bo looking around for good low end/ mid-range grunt. I couldn't give a crap what this engine does ever 5500 rpm. I am not taking her to the strip.

 

Alright to make it clear I am looking for 350-400 horsepower, and the same or more in torque, around 400 in the low 3500 rpm area. What do you think it will take to get this engine there? The lower the budget the better. Am I even seeing this realistacly?
I want to hear about what you guys have done to get your trucks with the 351 windsor into this range and see if I can make it work for me. Also this engine has zero smog equipment. No cats, egr, pcv, nothing. Just a good carbureted engine.

The place I got my truck from knew nothing about it and that is why I picked her up for dirt cheap.

Come on, I call it "The Mexican"...

 

This is probably better suited to the engine forums, but let's start simply:

How many miles does the engine have on it? To try and get big power out of a worn shortblock and new head, is just asking for broken parts! Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go? What is your budget for this rod?

I personally think your horsepower target is out of line for the RPM range. Not that it isn't possible, but it isn't possible cheaply/inexpensively. Remember that Horsepower = (torque * rpm)/5252, thus torque is always greater than horsepower below 5252 rpms, and lower than horsepower above it. With that, 350 ft/lbs at 3500 rpms = 233.24 horsepower. That sounds reasonable, and should be attainable with the correct parts. To get 350 horsepower at 3500 rpms, it would take 525.2 ft lbs of torque! You are in the diesel range there!

Is this your first V8 engine, or first "hot rod". If so, look at some of the Summit crate engines and what they can produce with the correct parts. This will show you a matched package and give you an idea what it takes to get to each level.

That said, if you want straight bolt on, and a good running rig, buy the Edelbrock Performer package and bolt it on (Intake,carb,cam), open up the exhausts (3 inch single minimum, 2.5 duals is better), and find a good 1 5/8 tube header (shorty's will work fine for you application, since you are not going for the high RPM horsepower). I think with your stock block and heads, you would be quite impressed and happy. Then start your base for your "big" engine in the future! (I am not an Edelbrock supporter, I actually never use their products, but even I can admit they work well and seem well matched!).

Kenny

 

Thanks for the great info. THe engine has just been rebuilt and has even good compression of 140psi all the way across. Not sure what compresion ratio that is though. I will try and keep the same heads for a while cause budget is going to be under 2 grand, and I need some interior work done too. I am used to seeing numbers with mopar, and with magnum heads, and some simple parts, you can get at least 1 horsepower per cubic inch. So I think that asking for 350hp should be pretty good. THis is my first V8. I am not used to large engine, but if I can rebuild small DOHC high compression complicated motorcycle engine I think I can learn. Just need to keep hearing from you guys. I will be around a bunch, and I guess I will post some in the engine forum.

You are sure shorties will fit fine though right? Also dual exhaust is easy with the shop I have hear in town, and I already have one 40 series flowmaster, and I jsut need to get another single in single out. It is 2.5 inch. Is x pipe good for torque? I know it evens out the pressure, but I am not sure what that does in terms or power.

 

Shorties for a pickup....not a car. I have an 81 F150 2wd and it is running an 86 Mustang 5.0 HO with the Mustang headers, but it takes some cutting on the crossmember (small) and I can run the exhaust down each side of the tranny and crossover behind it. You could not do this with a 4*4 because of the driveline and transfer case. You could ask your muffler shop if they could turn it under pretty quick, and then maybe, you could use the cheaper mustang headers.

If you can rebuild a 4 cylinder motorcycle engine, the V8 will be a piece of cake! Just purchase a good manual or book ("How to rebuild your small block Ford" is a good primer for the engine) and don't try to rush it.

Getting an X pipe on a pickup would be a bit of work, I think a simple crossover will do the trick.

Your muffler should work fine! Good think you feel it is a fresh engine, thus the cam change isn't a waste of time.

As for the Dodge, etc, they are all starting with better heads than you engine came with. You upgrade the heads (even to later GT40 style one off an explorer) and you can hit 1 hp per cubic inch...it is still going to be at the upper RPM range though!

Kenny

 

Don't mean to butt in here but Kenny the Performer RPM Air-Gap intake is a dual plane intake.

Ratfink are you sure that price is for the pair of heads? If they are new that price has to be each head.

Ted

 

Hold on I have the magazine in hands...


Yep. You were right, it is $939 for the pair withoud valves etc. With mechanical roller it jumps to $1339
And the air gap is said to have all the off idle and low range that the Performer dual plane, with cooler denser air to give even more power when the rest of the engine gets hot. Does not say in the magazine but in the picture you can see it's a dual plane.
I know what they both look like but what is the idea behind dual and single planes?

 

dual plane has long equal lengnth runners, left side feeds the center two right cylindes and outboard left cylinders ,right feeds the other four, single plane feeds all the cylinders from one big hole the reason you don't get as much low end torque from big itake valves and big lift duration cams with big intake port is port velocity when you mash the throttle its like when try to blow out a match with your mouth wide open lots of air but no velocity won't carry as much fuel engine bogs or runs lean = no power until higher rpm with the corresponding volume can keep up the volocity