monsterbaby:I am still not sure what you are showing with this chart (that I have looked at many times)
To quote you:
"There is no difference in the floor between the DOVE and D3VE heads, but rather than aurgue here is a link to a comparison chart between several different types of heads, both ported and unported, if you will notice the exhaust side is almost identical between the 2 types of heads up to around .700 lift."

You say 'almost identical', and yet at .400 lift, the D0VE C flows 236/134, while the D3 flows 136/125

at .500 lift: D0VE C: 263/135, D3:263/129
at .600 lift: D0VE C: 279/135, D3:270/129
at .700 lift: D0VE C: 289/135, D3: no data

This still shows D0VE C heads outflow D3's, no matter what the situation, stock or ported. Sure it amounts to a fairly small amount, but in no way does it show D3's to be superior in any regard, but in fact, the opposite holds true, whether slight or not.


I am attempting to find reasons for Troy's statement "...i have built a bunch 460s the d3 head out powers the doves every time compression being = of course..."
This just doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe Scott could step in here and explain to me how one would get more power from a D3 over a D0VE, stock or ported.
Flow is flow, and compression is compression. Smaller chambers give more compression/more power, higher flowing ports give more power at rpm...

Sure, your statement about not bothering to search for D0VE C's when the D3's are more plentiful and cheap makes sense, but anyone wanting some big power would be going to the aluminum aftermarket anyway.

My main point (and summary):

To make anyone here on this forum think their D0VE C heads are worth less than a D3VE A2A and that they should trade them in on a D3 casting would be a big mistake. That is all I have been trying to get across. So shoot me.

 

Monsterbaby,<O</O

Do the DOVE heads have hardened seats on the exhaust valves? I am wondering with all the people buying DOVE heads and just installing them won’t they have problems running unleaded pump gas?<O</O

Bill

 

Welcome to the forum secondchdhd, I know you will find the info you are looking for. <O</O
I would keep the DV3E heads and save the money DOVE heads will cost you and do some work on the exhaust side to help your flow. You can always raise your compression by milling your heads or using flat top pistons. I personally wouldn’t want to have to run premium pump gas with a splash of racing fuel in my street car or truck. <O</O
Bill<O</O

<O</O

 

The quench design combustion chamber actually helps stop detonation in high compression engines. 11:1 and run hard all day with mine; I have never heard ping, and I run regular pump gas (87-89 octane).
Open chamber heads are more prone to ping with high compression on pump gas. As long as your timing is right and you are jnot running too lean a mixture, you should be fine. It all depends on your setup, however.

 

The only ones that are open chamber are the D2VE heads which were in fact very prone to detonation as you say. The D3VE heads went back to a closed chamber design.
One thing you will find is your 11:1 compression engine, is NOT actually 11:1 or you wouldn't be running 89 octane fuel without detonation. That may be the listed ratio but I am guessing if you were to actually do the physical measurements like CC the heads, check the piston to deck clearence etc you will find it's at best 10:1 or lower.

Bill, no the DOVE heads did not have induction hardened seats in them like the D3VE heads but if you machine the later heads for bigger valves etc you will cut through that hardened area and won't have it on them either. installing hardened seats is not that expensive and is a good idea on either type especially if you are installing larger than stock valves.

 

I was in the shop when they were cutting the seats on my heads. The cutter seamed to take less than 2 revolutions to go through the hardened area, you could hear it. The Machinist who was doing the work told me it was very easy to go through the hardened area with a stone when doing a valve job. I had new hardened seats installed and cut for my new Ferra 1.76 exhaust valves. I am a believer in going with new hardened seats.

Bill

 

Hello Bill,
I have about 2k on my new valve job. Manly full flow s/s oversized valves. Ported and polished and a little milled off of the heads. I can't believe the difference this head work did. Of all of the work I have done on this engine the head work was by far the most impressive improvement in performance. It was like turning the lights on. Thanks to all of the guys on this forum for the suggestions and help. Gary

 

"One thing you will find is your 11:1 compression engine, is NOT actually 11:1 or you wouldn't be running 89 octane fuel without detonation. That may be the listed ratio but I am guessing if you were to actually do the physical measurements like CC the heads, check the piston to deck clearence etc you will find it's at best 10:1 or lower. "

I heard of the factory underrating horsepower back in the day, but why would they underrate compression ratio? Why would they say you are buying 11:1 when you are only getting 10:1? That's one heck of a big difference, and I'm sure someone would have caught on in the last 37 or so years...?

 

trinogt,
Well it should be easey enough to find out. Just run a compresson check. I am shure you can find a list of what the readings should be for a givin compreson rating. I don't have one handey but You should be able to find one or someone hear can help us.
Bill

 

Bill, a compression test will not give you static compression ratio, it will give closer to dynamic, the cam will make a big difference. Example my 13.4:1 comp engine will only put out 160psi cranking compression due to the cam I run.

 

You are right. I was think well what was I thinking?

 

How did it turn out?