"Here we go again..."

Not really. This project is going to start moving forward. Here's the plan:

1. 352 block, .030" over, 4.030" final bore size
2. 360 crank, rods (3.5" stroke, 6.54" rods)
3. Custom pistons, 20cc dome, .015" deck clearance, 12.98:1 compression ratio
4. D2TE-AA heads, 73cc chambers, mild porting
5. "S" code 4 barrel cast iron intake
6. Crane 343901 cam
7. 11.69:1 dynamic compression ratio
8. Headers (of course)
9. 600cfm Holley, Ethyl Alcohol fuel

Desktop dyno indicates 420hp @ 5500rpm, and 472ft-lbs @ 3500rpm. Someone check my desktop dyno numbers.

The idea is so I can make my own fuel, and not have to pay $3 / gallon for gasoline. The high compression ratio should make fuel mileage equivalent to gasoline. Now for the questions:

Where, should I get pistons? I dont necessarily want to use Forged pistons, as they cost more and offer no benefits on this build as far as I can see it. Hypereutectics that fit tight in the cylinder bores would be perfect. I want this thing to be tight and clean running for hundereds of thousands of miles, not an all out race motor. Will anyone make custom Hypereutectic pistons?

I plan to put this monstrosity into a '92 Explorer. Thoughts?

Edit: I haven't posted in a while. In case you were wondering, I'm not dead. Internet connection died. Just got it fixed...

 

what the properties or advatages of ethyl alcohol? If makes you feel any better the prices have temporary gone done to $2.59 my way.

 

I think the advantages are: You can drink your fuel.

 

Rusty, I really like your thinking on this, but why a 352 ? I suspect building the needed compression would be easier with a 390 or a 410. I am also using D2 heads, mine are shaved .040 right now, on both the decks and the port face. Don't know what volume thay are now, I need a way to measure them and see. I was thinking of a 390 with H395P hyper flattops, and then machining the block decks to zero. The gasket will give enough room at the top, .041 if you are using the fel-pros. What head gaskets are you planning on using ? Why are you thinking of having the slugs .015 down the hole ? Yes, machining the block and head decks is an exspensive PITA, but finding custom hypers might be impossible. And custom forgings are big $$. But building lots of compression with a 410 and shaved H395Ps or L2291Fs might be easy. Just a thought. DinosaurFan

 

Ok, here's my reasoning:

Mainly, I want to prove out the alcohol fuel thing. This will be accomplished by good mileage. If people see an FE big block getting good mileage, they'll rethink the whole "ethanol sucks" mentality. More cubic inches mean less mileage. I know I could get more compression with a bigger displacement motor. But with the power this thing will be putting out, it'll be more than adequate. Again, I'm not building a race motor. (although, at over 400hp, it will be fun...) Plus, I already have the 3.5" stroke crank ground .010" under, and the block is already bored .030" over. I have the 6.54" rods from my old 360. Everything looks to be in good shape, and I'm going to use it.

Additionally, and I may be a bit paranoid here, but I think the 3.5" stroke crank will reduce piston speed compared to a larger crank. Also, the 3.5" stroke crank doesn't have as long of throw on the crank, so it *should* be a bit stouter than the 390 or 428 crank, and able to handle the higher compressin ratio better. The long rods dont really like a lot of piston speed, so the smaller crank will accomodate them well. Plus, I get a better rod ratio, and while FE's are already good, this will be better.

On the head gasket / deck clearance issue:
The reason for the Mr. Gasket .020" steel shim head gaskets, is to handle the higher compression ratio. The reason for the .015" deck clearance is to get the quench space to the optimal .035". This is what I consider safe for street usage, as I dont want the pistons to be hitting the head when things start to wear a little bit.

Even if I ran zero deck and the .041" head gasket with the H395P's, in a 390, it would still only come out to 9.7:1 compression with my heads. You've got to remember, those valve reliefs take up 10cc's. In a 410 it would be 10.15:1.

After I install some new computers for one of my customers tomorrow, I'll call up the machine shop and ask about the custom pistons. As long as it's the ONLY thing in the motor that I'm shelling out big $$$ for, I think I'll be alright.

 

Rusty, why is .035 considered to be optimal quench distance ? Is there a reason we can't go tighter ? Lots tighter ? IIRC Ford sold a bunch of 390s in the early 60s that had the piston down the hole only .0005, and that was used with .017 thick steel shim gaskets. I have never heard of any problems with hitting the heads, and that was with .0175 quench. I wonder if the ethanol would like tighter or looser quench than gasoline ? Anyway, my thoughts were to deck the block to zero, and then use the steel shims and the heads are already cut .040. I want to measure the heads and seee what the volume is now. I can cut them more if I want to, I think I could cut off .020 more without worrying about deck strength. DF

 

Well I dont know if this applys, But there's a couple of guys in my Stang club..that are running Alky Motors..and there running 0.10 to .020" out of the hole on there motors? I dont quite understand it yet..but it must be for some reason?? LOL..I guess I'll have to ask at the next Cruise in...

Russ

 

I am looking in to this too, however if you leave town will there be fuel stations with ethanol? I am going to build mine to 9.5:1 compression so if I had to run gas I could re jet it and run gas.

 

Kurt,

just out of curiousity, what does it cost to build a Still , I mean ethanol production unit. Do you have plans? Or just one of those Hermit uncle types back in the woods?

 

Alky can handle more CR and the less quench the better for power. .035 is considered the min quench for a iron rodded street engine. "Loose" pistons are bearing should require more and aluminum rods or more yet.

DF, is on to something you could go less quench, i would always check p/v clearence and leave some stretch for the rotating assemblys.

Something like a kidney shaped aftermarket chamber with .017 quench would be a beast!!!!.

 

jfyi, i was reading an article on phr about the 2004 engine masters, 1st and 3rd place had the pistons just kissing the head. That of course was won by mr Kaase. They were running 92 octane and looking for all out power and torque.


the .035 is like your mommy telling you to be safe! I have seen several sources say that spec as the minimum quench for a hp street engine though.

 

DF, Russ:

The reason for the extra quench space is somewhat complicated. However, things wear, rods stretch, pistons rock, and carbon builds up. Add it all up and it could mean trouble at some point down the road. I could probably get away with .030" just fine though. Since this is a street motor and I want it to go hundreds of thousands of miles, I'll error on the side of safety. Besides, the article on KB-Silvolite says .040" to .060" quench space works good, so what's wrong with .035"?

Huntersbo:

That's kind of the sticking point. Way I see it, I do have some options though. First, I very rarely travel out of the state. On longer trips in state, I could pack along a few 5 gallon cans of ethanol, and refuel when I get there. Alternatively, I could arrange with someone selling race fuel before I leave, if they also sell ethanol or methanol. Worst comes to worst, I could rejet and run race fuel. I'd also want to put a bigger fuel tank in.

Greg:
I think the total for all the parts to build a still will come in under $100. I got plans a couple years ago, and still have them around. The plans cost $30. If you're interested, I could go find 'em and give you any specifics, like where to get the plans.

 

yah, me with my own still. That's a good idea. With the friends I've got???

 

Exactly! A little for you, a little for your truck! What's wrong with that? Be a lot cheaper than beer, more effective too! With that Hurricane Rita coming along (hope you dont get blown away) you might need it!

 

would your gas mileage be 3mpg with ethanol?

I get 6 with gas in my 351 f-150

I would be content with 3 miles per gallon on ehtanol more mpg does not hurt,