I just read an article last night..that some of the newer cars and trucks will run on E85 = 85% alky and 15% gas... on some 2000 vehicles on up....and that the car dealers have a chip for a retro fit that can be put in ..to change the injector settings etc... Its a good read if I can remember where I read it?? LOL.. Good Luck!!

Russ

 

chips??? injectors??? cardealers??? what the hell are those............LOL

 

It isn't a matter of passing an emissions test. It is about what the federal government allows to be used for fuel and how it is used which is where the certified kits come in.
If you modify any registered vehicle to run on an alternative fuel, then you are installing a "kit". Don't get confused with the definition of what a "kit" envelopes.

 

Purely, um, where are you getting this stuff ? I think you have been misinformed, or maybe someone is blowing smoke up your shorts. Yes, Federal law limits some of what you can do, but alternative fuels are a whole differant deal than gasoline. It would seem there are big enough holes in the law to, well, drive a truck through. The Feds know that ethanol, propane, and natural gas are all 3 much much cleaner than gasoline burning. In almost every state, our trucks are too old to have to go through the testing anyway. And if one wanted to split legal hairs, the fed laws cover what a licencsed shop can do, not what an individual can do on his own. Usually one of the biggest things the feds look for is catalitic convertors, which our FE powered trucks never came with. The fed laws cover 'transportation' fuels, and 'motor vehicles'. If you look up those terms in a lawyer's dictionary, you will find that a MV is an auto or truck that is registered to be used in 'transportation'. Transportation is the BUSINESS of carrying passengers or freight for hire. I don't think many of us do that with our old trucks. I carry my own stuff around, and my family and freinds ride with me. But they don't pay a fare, or buy a ticket. So they are my guests, rather than passengers. The things I carry are articles of private chattle property, not freight. Don't let the law scare you, there is nothing standing in the way of an ethanol job on these old trucks.Now, if you were thinking of a new truck, that might well be differant. DF, @ his Dad's house

 

Rusty

I have also thought to convert to Alchol but the corossion issue, the refueling issue and the safty problems are also a concern. Another problem that I considered is the production cost. What will be your source for heat to cook you mashand what is your base material? Electricity works best acording to the books and plans I have for steady temp control. I did consider that a small windmill with a bank of batteries would do the trick to cut the cost. Also I have a large yard and produce three full loads of lawn grass every week when I mow. That combined with a small bit of white sugar, maybe a few tbsp to a cup per batch could produce some powerfull alcohol. a 5 lb bag of sugar is 1-2 dollars. Additionaly if one carfully purges a couple of old Propane Grill Canistersthey are clean enough to use as wort pots and you could set up a few small batch stills to pruduce your feul.
The Negatives for me were never quit overcome though.
The corossion issue- alcohol attacks metal and eats regular fuel line rubbers.
The refueling issue goes hand in hand with safety.
Race fuel is expensive and very flameable but at least when it burns you can see some flamage, Alcohol Burns Blue to clear and you cant see it burning in the daylight.
What Is the plan to overcome any of these?
I'm Not Busting your chopps. I realy am interested . I have a 68 f100 and I just reworked my 360fe upto +0.060 bore and 3.78 stroke. It works out to a 401.4 displacement and basiclly matches the specs for a 406fe. Est. Peak Torque @607.7 ftlb @ 2000 rpms. and an Est. Peak HP 339.7 @ 3500 rpms. i'm still trying to work out the rear ratio and for greatest milage at 65 mph I get a 2.5 which has the rpms at 2071. But from what I see She'll be softonthe launch with the desktop dyno suggests is at 2350 rpm.

John

 

Here check out this and I'll be checking my shorts and report back to you.

http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/conversion.php

I'll add that if I made any mistakes in my statements about the regulations then I guess I am human and I misread them.

 

Pure, I went and checked out the site, pullled up some of the EPA links as well. It might be unfair to say that you mis-read it. But they are certainly trying to mislead you, and anyone else who reads their little rant. Just who are they anyway ? They are a group of folks who want you to purchase a new car, one that runs on either gasoline or ethanol. If you convert over a car or truck that you already have, they get nothing. They're trying very hard to sell cars, and they don't really care if some of their info is misleading, as least as far as conversions go. I also went to the EPA stuff and read what they have to say. Their laws are aimed at manufacturers and conversion companies, not at individual truck owners.Even if you are a manufacturer or conversion company, all you have to do is be at least as clean as the model year the vehicle you are converting was when it was made. For those of us with old, pre 76 trucks, that will be a cake walk on ethanol. DF, at home

 

are you saying blending with sugar when you fermit it will make it more powerful?

I am taking the horse maunre route, it still has hay in it and it doesnot smell.I think I would burn 2500 gallons a year, I use 1000 gallons a year right now on gas driving the minimum,

 

Does anybody know if I have to get a permit to run a still in my backyard in San Diego California?

 

In San Diego your close enough to TJ, Just to cross the border and buy Shine!!! LOL..

Russ

 

You need to register for an experimentors permit and you are required to keep accurite records of production and provide information on the design, size, and exact location of the still on your property. Once you have the permit you can legaly produce 15,000 gollons per year.
John

 

That very well be the case dinosaurfan. It isn't the first time a group has at their gain tried to mislead the public. It is happening at an exponential rate today.

Anyway, I have looked at the distilling process and the regulations on it for making this stuff for fuel. There are very specific guidlines on this and it does require a permit just like johnnydmetal stated.

I had just watched the presedent's speech on the oil and gas supply being affected by the hurricanes. He stated we should all do our part to conserve fuel. That's about as close to getting a presidential order to do this as it gets!

 

I think one of their main concerns in issueing distillers permits is the security of the storage area. I put right on my aplication that I intednded to distill it in my back yard, and store it in alchohol rated containers, locked up in my garage. They issued my permit no problem. This was before I got to far into it, and decided not to do it.

I was thinking of using a solar hot water heater to provide heat for the still, but others have commented that it just doesn't work that well.

As for the mash, I don't know that recycled hay or grass would have as much starch in it to produce a good ratio of alchohol to mash. Just a thought.

 

Cap'n Tea Bag
Back in the day the farmers threw wasted stalks of corn and hay into the mash to run their tractors. I asked around about using lawn grass on to do this and it seemed no one had tried it that I could find. But they all seemed to feel that healthy green grass should produce a decent yield of alcohol. Adding the sugar would be only to give it a bit of a push. I have a cousin who makes his own brandy at home from pumpkins and cane sugar. Its great for a few Christmas Eve shots but hits like a freight train.
It’s kind of thick and sweet too.

Starch is a complex carbohydrate and carbohydrates are sugar.
The green in the lawn is chlorophyll, which is just stored starch (i.e. Sugar).

I was told to try it with just the grass and see what it yields. If its too week the guys I spoke to suggested adding the week stuff to a new batch of wort and add some sugar.
They all referred this to finding my “Recipe”.
As I said before the windmills would be virtually free energy to charge the batteries. There are low voltage hot water heaters that will generate the steady temperatures needed. You could even gut the coil from an old kitchen stove and re-box the control so as to really cut cost. Basically you need a hot plate. I think the temp is around 170-180.
With some careful tinkering you could make the thing automated save for the wasted mash. The great think is once you are done with the mash it can be used as fertilizer so nothing goes to waste.
One of the problems with running alcohol is refueling can be deadly. Just watch the pit fires on Nascar. The race fuel is about as flammable. A small static spark can really ruin your day when the flash point of the fuel is that high.

I like the idea of putting the money in my pocket too but I have been a custom metal fabricator on and off for 19 years and I still have all my 21 fingers. Right now I work in computers but the fields saturated and shrinking, so I’m taking what I know of both and reopening my old company. I don’t make a move without carefully thinking the problem out. A lesson learned after 6 years of the army. That said I buy 12 gallons of gas a week for 240 miles in my commute car ”02 Honda Civic”. The thing gets 38mpg. The math on the overhaul of my 68 F100 says the best I could hope for is 15-19 with the new set up I am working. For a 68 that’s awesome but the Honda’s got to stay in my driveway for the daily driving. Now If I could produce enough alcohol to run the truck regularly the Honda would last a hell of a lot longer.
They say 30% poorer fuel economy with alcohol so on the carburetor you have to run larger jets. Thus instead of the 15-19 mpg the math says I can get from gas I would be getting 10-12. But it would be cheap.

Rant over
John

 

The pumpkin brandy sounds good. Maybe I'll set up the still just for that.

Sounds like the lawn grass is worth a try then. Let us know if it turns out. I'm sure that we could all have enough organic material every week to work with if that is the case.

The low voltage water heaters sound like a better idea than what I was envisioning. I was thinking of directly heating the water by pumping it up to heat collectors on the roof. Or another idea I had was to build my own used oil heater to heat the water. I found plans for it here: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...earth/me4.html

Lately I have been considering doing a dual fueled propane/ethanol conversion. Ethanol for towing and hauling @ss, and propane for cruising. Mostly I'm just going to worry about getting my engine finished at this point. After I get all my stuff hot tanked and magnafluxed, I am going to explore the option of having the combustion chambers welded up a bit to make it more kidney bean shaped and smaller.