Lifetime Air Filter - NO
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
#5 Today, 01:41 PM
ochoada
New User Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1
Here is the link to the reference described above, although the test was on a filter for a diesel truck.
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
You can also search AC Delco vs K&N on google and you will fine the article
The above is from the F150 forum. This pointer applies and is a good comparison. 
ochoada
New User Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1
Here is the link to the reference described above, although the test was on a filter for a diesel truck.
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
You can also search AC Delco vs K&N on google and you will fine the article
The above is from the F150 forum. This pointer applies and is a good comparison.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,720
Likes: 5
From: Washington state
Looks like AC Delco knows how to engineer and build a quality air filter, what about Motorcraft?
thanks
thanks
Originally Posted by EBTDM
#5 Today, 01:41 PM
ochoada
New User Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1
Here is the link to the reference described above, although the test was on a filter for a diesel truck.
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
You can also search AC Delco vs K&N on google and you will fine the article
The above is from the F150 forum. This pointer applies and is a good comparison.
ochoada
New User Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1
Here is the link to the reference described above, although the test was on a filter for a diesel truck.
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
You can also search AC Delco vs K&N on google and you will fine the article
The above is from the F150 forum. This pointer applies and is a good comparison. 
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
From: Wichita
I read that before and asked K&N to respond. This is what they said.
Dear Customer,
The filter test conducted by Testand comparing the K&N Filter to many other original equipment and replacement filters is flawed in several aspects. First, using data published in their test report, the efficiencies calculated for all of the filters tested are correct, with the exception of the K&N filter. Using their data, the efficiency of the K&N filter would calculate out to be higher than the published efficiency in the report. This raises an issue of credibility. Also, the protocol that is outlined does not follow the industry standard for air filter testing. K&N, routinely, has air filter testing performed by a nationally recognized, independent research laboratory and these independent tests report a substantially higher efficiency than the testand report.
Dear Customer,
The filter test conducted by Testand comparing the K&N Filter to many other original equipment and replacement filters is flawed in several aspects. First, using data published in their test report, the efficiencies calculated for all of the filters tested are correct, with the exception of the K&N filter. Using their data, the efficiency of the K&N filter would calculate out to be higher than the published efficiency in the report. This raises an issue of credibility. Also, the protocol that is outlined does not follow the industry standard for air filter testing. K&N, routinely, has air filter testing performed by a nationally recognized, independent research laboratory and these independent tests report a substantially higher efficiency than the testand report.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,720
Likes: 5
From: Washington state
where can we view an oiled filter media manuf. independent testing online?
I have read K&N's own inhouse testing and am not impressed. I want to read about more than cfm flow rate data. How much dust/dirt gets through the filter? How long will it maintain maximun filtering efficiency? How heavy a load of particulates will it carry before air flow restriction below engine requirements? Particulate size and filtering efficiency graph at maximum rated air flow.
It's like the car manuf.'s horsepower claims of the '60s & '70s. Advertisement value only put out by marketing, not sound engineering principles and testing based upon real science.
I have read K&N's own inhouse testing and am not impressed. I want to read about more than cfm flow rate data. How much dust/dirt gets through the filter? How long will it maintain maximun filtering efficiency? How heavy a load of particulates will it carry before air flow restriction below engine requirements? Particulate size and filtering efficiency graph at maximum rated air flow.
It's like the car manuf.'s horsepower claims of the '60s & '70s. Advertisement value only put out by marketing, not sound engineering principles and testing based upon real science.
Last edited by 96_4wdr; Aug 2, 2005 at 08:02 PM.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,416
Likes: 1
From: Mitchell, SD
If you truely want a re-usable filter go for it.
Butt, down the road when you are having MAF, O2s, Cats, plugs issues, don't blame me. Stick with Motorcraft Filters and you will not have these issues. Check any Ford Board and you will see the same issues poping up when people use oil'd filters.
Butt, down the road when you are having MAF, O2s, Cats, plugs issues, don't blame me. Stick with Motorcraft Filters and you will not have these issues. Check any Ford Board and you will see the same issues poping up when people use oil'd filters.
Thread Starter
|
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 6
From: Northern California
Originally Posted by VanGo
I speak from experience when I say I have used K&N cones and OEM style K&N filters and I have never had a problem with my air or fuel system. None whatsoever. I inspect the MAF, throttlebody etc regularly. I even sent my TurboCoupe's 100K mile injectors in to be cleaned professionally and the before and after performance/flow charts were nearly the same.
To address an earlier comment. These are not the same filters as the oil bath models of 50 years ago.
Ed, I'll check out the site. I'm open to other opinions.
To address an earlier comment. These are not the same filters as the oil bath models of 50 years ago.
Ed, I'll check out the site. I'm open to other opinions.
VanGo, beleive it or not, I was going to buy a K&N (or similar) air filter for my van (KN # 33-2024) but for some reason or another, I never did. When I heard this issue discussed Sunday morning on Doug Brauner's radio show. www.carczar.com I had no idea about the MAF issue. Also, Doug is a certifed technician and sees these things in a close-up, auto repair shop envioroment. If you were interested, I would be happy to make a casette tape of his radio show, so you could hear it for yourself as an auto enthuiasist. However, I don't think we're allowed to post our e-mail addresses on this site? Ed
PS I am going to tape this Sunday's show anyway, in case their is further discussion on this topic.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,417
Likes: 3
From: Durham, NC
Originally Posted by 96_4wdr
where can we view an oiled filter media manuf. independent testing online?
I have read K&N's own inhouse testing and am not impressed. I want to read about more than cfm flow rate data. How much dust/dirt gets through the filter? How long will it maintain maximun filtering efficiency? How heavy a load of particulates will it carry before air flow restriction below engine requirements? Particulate size and filtering efficiency graph at maximum rated air flow.
It's like the car manuf.'s horsepower claims of the '60s & '70s. Advertisement value only put out by marketing, not sound engineering principles and testing based upon real science.
I have read K&N's own inhouse testing and am not impressed. I want to read about more than cfm flow rate data. How much dust/dirt gets through the filter? How long will it maintain maximun filtering efficiency? How heavy a load of particulates will it carry before air flow restriction below engine requirements? Particulate size and filtering efficiency graph at maximum rated air flow.
It's like the car manuf.'s horsepower claims of the '60s & '70s. Advertisement value only put out by marketing, not sound engineering principles and testing based upon real science.
Check out the discription in K&N's OWN website. Notice the statement about "will stop small dirt particles":
http://www.knfilters.com/wraps.htm
Last edited by Bob Ayers; Aug 3, 2005 at 05:38 AM.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Top 6 Best Deals Available on New Fords & Lincolns Right Now
Brett Foote
This Hennessey Takes the Expedition Tremor's Off-Roading Capability to the Next Level
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals
Joe Kucinski
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership
Brett Foote
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches
Pouria Savadkouei
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained
Brett Foote
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,720
Likes: 5
From: Washington state
I think these oiled synthetic media filters may work with the prefilter. But then, what is the advantage over a regular paper/syn. fiber dry filter? Flow rate is reduced by pre filter to same levels as paper filter but particulate size filtering and loading should be improved over just oiled filter.
We need some independent test data to confirm.
I'm basically lazy when it comes to auto work and hate anymore to get greasy and dirty. I'll let someone else clean and oil one of these, my eye sight is no longer good enough to measure out 1.17 oz of their special oil.
I remember a great horsepower trick for the old Chev small blocks. Pull out the air filter donut and flip the filter lid over, really screamed at high rpms, increased air flow.
Sounded like the engine had a 6v71 Jimmy blower hid under the hood or a F104 Starfighter on takeoff. Might have to do some adjustments to get just the perfect air flow whistle.
We need some independent test data to confirm.
I'm basically lazy when it comes to auto work and hate anymore to get greasy and dirty. I'll let someone else clean and oil one of these, my eye sight is no longer good enough to measure out 1.17 oz of their special oil.
I remember a great horsepower trick for the old Chev small blocks. Pull out the air filter donut and flip the filter lid over, really screamed at high rpms, increased air flow.
Sounded like the engine had a 6v71 Jimmy blower hid under the hood or a F104 Starfighter on takeoff. Might have to do some adjustments to get just the perfect air flow whistle.
Last edited by 96_4wdr; Aug 3, 2005 at 06:32 AM.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,417
Likes: 3
From: Durham, NC
Originally Posted by 96_4wdr
I remember a great horsepower trick for the old Chev small blocks. Pull out the air filter donut and flip the filter lid over, really screamed at high rpms, increased air flow.
Brings back old memories!!!! I remember reading an article about flipping the air cleaner lid over, and the testing done indicated ther was a reduction in power, due to air turbulance into the carb. But, back then it was the "cool" thing to do.....making a lot more noise!!!
Last edited by Bob Ayers; Aug 3, 2005 at 06:24 AM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,720
Likes: 5
From: Washington state
sure sounded good though, sounded like more ponys, but then we only went from light to light, looking for the best sounding pipe rack off and that screaming Chevy small block distinctive sound and burble at idle.
gas mileage, $0.35 a gal, what was that.
gas mileage, $0.35 a gal, what was that.
Originally Posted by Bob Ayers
Brings back old memories!!!! I remember reading an article about flipping the air cleaner over, and the testing done indicated ther was a reduction in power, due to air turbulance into the carb.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
Guys, What is the goal here?
If you want power increase the first simple formula is to improve airflow on exhaust and intake. (My old Chevy and Plymouth did improve on the 1/4 mile ETs (elapse times) at the track by flipping the intake and even better when I removed the filter completely) Neither of these engines even thought to see 200K miles and beyond.
If you want to improve your engine life keep the contaminants out and improve both internal and external engine cleaning habits & products.
By the way most test results can be skewed to make a certain point like any other set of gathered statistics. It is all in the eye of the beholder. 
If you want power increase the first simple formula is to improve airflow on exhaust and intake. (My old Chevy and Plymouth did improve on the 1/4 mile ETs (elapse times) at the track by flipping the intake and even better when I removed the filter completely) Neither of these engines even thought to see 200K miles and beyond.
If you want to improve your engine life keep the contaminants out and improve both internal and external engine cleaning habits & products.
By the way most test results can be skewed to make a certain point like any other set of gathered statistics. It is all in the eye of the beholder.
Last edited by EBTDM; Aug 3, 2005 at 07:18 AM.
Former ******
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,901
Likes: 2
From: Salt Lake City, Utah
THe Aerostars have a pathetic exhaust setup. Any questions as to why the 4.0 has only 10 more HP than the 3.0? The cats are fine, but the pipe diameter is to small for an engine of that size. You can increase that for much better power output. As far as the K&N filters, I am starting to agree with you guys. If K&N is so confident about their filters, why don't they post the filtering size?
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento
K&N user reports
I have 102K on my current K&N air filter, on a '96 4.0 that now has 152K on the engine. I got 18.4 mpg in city driving, with AC on in flat Sacramento, last tankful. Have never had any MAF problems. Engine uses no oil. It gets changed every 3K, overkill I know. I clean the K&N about every 30-40K. I think the filter and cleaning kit cost me around $50. If nothing else, the K&N is a labor saver at oil change time.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post